tdntj

[Guest]

Hi all,

 

I just had my neighbour knocking on my door early this morning to let me know that council officials (dressed in suits) knocked on his door and asked questions about my chickens and then walked around my property to investigate (while I was not in)...

 

To be honest I don't really care who contacted them (apart from them just being nosey people and not getting on with their own lives - whilst trying to make other peoples more difficult). But I would still rather someone came and talked to me about it first - I'm not an unreasonable person. Where have all the manners in society gone? Or perhaps there never was any but I am sure the world was a friendlier place when I was younger (but maybe it is just my child inocence).

 

It could well have even been my neighbour that warned me (afraid that another neighbour might point out they went straight to his house and then have a look around my property).

 

Anyway they are all kept clean and are well fed/looked after (so I don't have anything to worry about regarding welfare standards). (They do smell a little bit I guess, but they don't seem to have attracted any flies or rats and they make very little noise - if any). Like most of you I love them as much as my dog and treat them as my pets... (they have become a big part of my life - I spend hours and hours with them each day watching their anticts.

 

The problem is that I have checked my deeds and we are not supposed to keep poultry/farm animals. But the ridiculous thing is right behind my garden/back hedgerow is a full blown farm with cows, sheep, horses, chickens, cockerels all making their usual farm noises and smells etc. - which is lovely (we do live in the country). And if I could afford a farm I would but believe me, my budget is stretched to the max to actually be able to afford anything in the country (especially as a first time buyer in my early 20's).

 

But the thing that really annoys me is the fact that these "council officials" just walked up my private drive and around my private property to investigate their official buisness. - I will double check with the council as to why they didn't ask me first and to complain because they could have been burglars posing as council officials.

 

Surely they have to ask for my permission or obtain a warrant to snoop around my property on official business?

 

And there are also plenty of things that annoy me about my neighbours (their boy racer exhausts), loud music, constant dog barking, kids screaming and shouting on the street and many other things (but I let them get on with it because it is their life and they should be able to choose how they want to live) - NOT ANY MORE! (I feel some neighbourly disputes coming on)...

 

Grr why is it always the good people that seem to get penalised in this world? I pay my taxes, live within my means and have never done anything illegal...

 

Rant over, sorry peeps...

[Ziggy]

Hi there,

That is a very frustrating experience... I didn't check our home deeds before getting the chooks, I just checked council rules for our neighbourhood and it said 'up to 6 hens allowed, no cockerels allowed', so I thought 2 chooks should be just fine... I'm not sure if pet chickens actually count as 'poultry' in the farming sense of the word, never checked the legal stuff... My chooks are a bit noisy, but I am lucky with my neighbours, they are tolerant of pets and kids letting off steam in the garden in noisy ways, and in the same way I am tolerant of their pets, like the dog who keeps getting stuck in my garden after climbing on top of the sheds... It is a wonderful feeling when everyone can agree to be nice and let things happen without taking every little thing as reason to go to war... but unfortunately not everyone is like that, and I always dread what could happen when or if neighbours change...

The house deeds, which I did eventually check once because someone else on these boards was having trouble with neighbours and found out their deeds mentioned 'no poultry', thankfully don't mention anything, but if they did I'd wonder why the council finds '6 hens' acceptable, but not in my garden... it wouldn't be logical, would it...

I hope you get no problems with your chickens, as you say they are no trouble to anyone, and part of the family... and people should be honest enough to come and talk to you first before getting any officials to check you out... what harm can some chooks do right next to a farm anyway?

[Guest]

Hi ziggy,

 

Thanks for reading my post and giving your kind words!

 

I just needed to vent some steam and share my experience when I found this all out this morning.

 

Now I just need to work through everything logically...

 

My partner did contact the council before we got the chickens and asked if we were allowed to keep chickens in our area and we got the same response as you - chickens are fine but they did say that although they have no objections to us keeping cockerels, neighbours may make a complaint which could make things difficult.

 

We did have one cockerel when one of our chicks started crowing he is now gone...

 

This all amazes me though as we do live in such a rural area as I said with a full working farm behind us (the cows come up to the hedge and I could touch them).

 

Basically I live on a small newish development built on farmland...

 

If I can't keep chickens and unfortunately am forced to part with them I will be devestated! They are a big part of my life. I know this sounds silly but I will just have to try and sell the house I am in and buy a house where I can keep chickens...

[Guest]

lol, If I moved my coop 2-3 feet (on the otherside of the hedge) it would be fine. How crazy is that?

[Guest]

If you rang and asked, I don't think you can have anything to worry about.

 

I'm in a newish house backing onto farmland too. We don't have dairy cows any more but there are lots of young bulls (whatever they're called ). they come up to my fence and eat my bushes! They're also fascinated by the chickens and I can get nervous of them breaking into my garden.

 

I'd stick it out (if you have to, hopefully nothing will happen) and argue that as you back onto farmland you can't see any problem with keeping a few chickens. They are pets, not farm animals.

[The Dogmother]

Bullocks Ginette!

 

Young bulls that is

[Guest]

But do they 'doctor' them and call them something else?

[Guest]

If you rang and asked, I don't think you can have anything to worry about.

 

Well (stupidly) we didn't ask for it in writing and when we checked the deeds we found out that we couldn't keep poultry/farm animals...

 

I am guessing that the deeds in writing will stand up greater than a phone call to the council.

 

I will of course argue the point that we are so close to the farm and that they are pets but if they've got to go then unfortunately they will have to go...

[Olly]

there might be two different issues here - unless your house is owned by the council, what is on the deeds shouldn't have anything to do with them.

 

Briefly, if your deeds say 'no poultry or livestock', this is usually imposed by the developer of the estate. It's enforceable either by them, if they retain an interest, or more probably by your neighbours, who will have similar covenants in their deeds. The council won't enforce what's in the deeds, it would be up to your neighbours to raise a complaint and ultimately to take you to court in a civil case.

 

The council are more likely to be investigating environmental issues of noise, smell etc., following a complaint from your neighbours. Regardless of what is said in your deeds, if you were in breach of environmental health regulations then they would be able to prosecute you - obviously not before they have raised it with you, discussed it etc.

 

If your chickens are well-looked after and you don't have any cockerels, then I'd have thought it unlikely they would do anything unless there is a by-law about keeping chickens. It's quite unlikely that there is a by-law, especially as your partner phoned the council and asked.

 

And in fairness to the council - if there has been a complaint, then they have a duty to investigate it. Let's hope they saw your lovely, clean, quiet chickens happily scratching around in their Eglu and run, and will be dismissing the complaint!

[The Pearsons]

This isn't really a serious suggestion - just a note to prove how daft the situation is....

 

Make a "cave" at the base of your hedge and put your eglu in there. The hens are not then on your property......

 

Helen in Hume

[Guest]

I don't have an eglu... lol I keep my chooks in a shed with a walk-in run attached.

 

I own the property (freehold) and I have never recieved any benefit of any kind (not even NHS - touch wood lol).

 

I understand that they were possibly just investigating a complaint (which is fair enough), but I still think that their first action should have been a letter to me, not a quick walk around my property (when I'm not in) while they gather evidence for some kind of investigation.

 

I didn't realise that the council can't enforce what is in the deeds...

[Olly]

PS - Just re-reading your original post, you say you have a farm behind with cockerels etc. I wonder if one of your neighbours has heard a cockerel crowing, and immediately assumed it was in your garden because they know you have chickens?

 

Maybe it's a case of mistaken identity.

[Snowy]

Just a thought following Ollys post - would they go straight in and prosecute, or would they serve an improvement notice first and give you time to rectify any concerns? I know that's how it works with EH and businesses but not sure if the same rules apply.

[Guest]

Maybe it's a case of mistaken identity.

 

Possibly - lets hope so...

 

I am still waiting to hear of anything official from the council...

 

There are also loads of detached cottages/smallholdings surrounding our devlopment that keep cockerels so we get a lovely echo effect in the morning so I don't really understand why anyone would object about keeping chickens/cockerels anyway.

 

I bet it is just someone from a city/town that has moved out into the country and doesn't like what they have found! Friendly people, fresh air, farm animals and healthy living...

[The Dogmother]

Devil's advocate here - perhaps your neighbour was telling porkies and no-one came round at all....

[Dancing Gal]

I don't understand why keeping a few hens is considered to be any different to keeping a few rabbits. guinea pigs or birds in an aviary.

[Guest]

I don't understand why keeping a few hens is considered to be any different to keeping a few rabbits. guinea pigs or birds in an aviary.

 

I know... Both of my next door neighbours keep rabits and neighbours cats/dogs are always finding a way into our garden but I just turn a blind eye...

 

As I menioned ealier I have dogs and I have trained them to be quiet. Severel of my neighbours also keep dogs and they bark constantly - but I don't complain about that...

[Guest]

Devil's advocate here - perhaps your neighbour was telling porkies and no-one came round at all....

 

That could be true!

 

But the particular neighbour that came over is actually always very friendly indeed. He always offers us help/tools if we are doing work in the garden and he knocks on our door to let us know if it's raining and we have left a car window open...

 

I just don't understand it. But I'm sure it will all become clear soon enough...

[bronze]

I would contact the police and say that you had been told that there had been men sniffing round your house while you have been out and you are worried/scared.

[Guest]

I would contact the police and say that you had been told that there had been men sniffing round your house while you have been out and you are worried/scared.

 

Wishful thinking!! lol

 

I would rather it was some burglars than get my chickens taken away from me...

 

My Rottwielers hiding quietly in the house will soon sort them out! lol

[kissinuk]

I wouldn't worry about it, the council can't enforce you deeds and most people wouldn't have a clue where to go to enforce them.

 

My deeds say no birds, poultry or animals other than domestic pets. I've past this wording by my local MP who sent me a nice letter saying that the wording is so general that as long as I kept less than 5 or so hens and kept them as pets (ie with vet care and not for breeding etc) then I should be fine. Obviously this wouldn't have much impact in a court but it will be shown to the neighbours if they ever complain.

[Guest]

Thanks... As you suggested I might try writing my local MP as well.

 

I could really use some kind of document in writing (from someone with power) just in case I need to produce it to anyone...

[Guest]

well, if I were you I wouldn't sit and worry, I'd ring the council's environment health dept and ask them if they've been out to you and if there is a complaint on record about your property- tell them it's causing you stress and you want to know what's going on!

[Christian]

I remember a previous poster who had problems with their deeds. The point is most deeds say no satilite dishes, commercial vehicles, caravans, boats etc.

Most 'new' housing estates have at least some people who 'break' the rules!

 

I hope all works out well for you Kr00zin_uk!!

 

I would move too if i had to get rid of my chickens!!

[Guest]

I remember a previous poster who had problems with their deeds. The point is most deeds say no satilite dishes, commercial vehicles, caravans, boats etc.

Most 'new' housing estates have at least some people who 'break' the rules!

 

I hope all works out well for you Kr00zin_uk!!

 

I would move too if i had to get rid of my chickens!!

 

our covenant said 'no conservatories' so we paid £50 to Redrow and they removed it from the deeds! Moneygrabbers!

 

oh yeah, it also said no hedges or fences btwn properties, most of us have hedges!