bronze Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Chap is right about runts/deformities in the free range side - my Ella is a free range runt chicken (hubby brought Sam & Ella home ) as they were due to be culled at the farm as they were too small. I never once thought he would only have to cull on the intensive side. Near the beginning I thought it would be about equal but I am convinced that as time went on there would be more culled on the intensive side than on the free range. Not only will you get the malformed birds equally on both sides but I'm sure you would get more problems caused by injuries and lack of space on the intensive. Admittedly I havent read all the bloke on RC says as I havent been able to read beyond page 3 all day. Grrr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 (edited) by the way christian, you missed half of my quote off which looks like I'm stating a fact, which I wasn't! Corrected now Poet. Apologies. In February of 2006 I decided that I wanted to get some chickens for my back garden. I read several pages, books and documents about chicken welfare. Battery hens, broiler hens and free range systems. I do feel quite well read when it comes to how chicken is raised, marketed and sold in this country. Free range birds, in my humble opinion, must have access to outdoor space of some description. That is what my research has shown me. Broiler chickens do not. Those are the facts that I have read. Just my opinion. edited for truly bad spelling mistakes Edited January 9, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsea Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Chap is right about runts/deformities in the free range side - my Ella is a free range runt chicken (hubby brought Sam & Ella home ) as they were due to be culled at the farm as they were too small. I never once thought he would only have to cull on the intensive side. Near the beginning I thought it would be about equal but I am convinced that as time went on there would be more culled on the intensive side than on the free range. Not only will you get the malformed birds equally on both sides but I'm sure you would get more problems caused by injuries and lack of space on the intensive. Admittedly I havent read all the bloke on RC says as I havent been able to read beyond page 3 all day. Grrr You're probably right Bron. I suspect the culling done on the free range side might be either runts (like my ella) or maybe a developed birth defect that wasnt spotted at the hatchery before taken to the farm. I would imagine that there are lots more culled on the intensive side as they are sat in ammonia all day, they cant get out and they get so top heavy and "go off their legs". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 (edited) bron he says the industry standard maximum stocking recommendation for intensive is 17 birds per square metre but he said it's still 15 for free range. Doesn't exactly give them much more room, that is if the free range farmer uses his maximum quota. obviously not all do but neither do all intensive farmers. and I know the difference is free range birds get to go outside but some of them don't if they're housed in massive barns. I know they have the choice to go outside but the fact is, some of them don't get the chance to. the whole thing is giving me a headache now so I'm logging off for now. ttfn Edited January 9, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin B Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Free range birds, in my humble opinion, must have access to outdoor space of some description. That is what my research has shown me. Broiler chickens do not. Those are the facts that I have read. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Free range birds, in my humble opinion, must have access to outdoor space of some description. Just my opinion. I would have to agree with you Christian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Free range birds, in my humble opinion, must have access to outdoor space of some description. Just my opinion. I would have to agree with you Christian. they don't always have the chance to get outside though. Did you read my comment about max stocking densities as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsea Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 and I know the difference is free range birds get to go outside but some of them don't if they're housed in massive barns. I know they have the choice to go outside but the fact is, some of them don't get the chance to. Dont worry Poet, they do have access to outside, even the really big barns (some of which hold 12,000 free range birds) all have doors to the outside and the breeze blowing through. The supermarkets wouldnt be able to sell them as "free range" if they werent...there would be a right "hoo haa". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 it's all the conflicting info flying around that's driving me nuts chelsea, thanks for that latest info btw, I feel a little more reassured to hear it from an insider, so to speak! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 There's a really helpful 'jargon buster' on the Channel 4 website, I read it at lunchtime. Tells you the requirements and the stocking densities, I believe. http://www.channel4.com/food/on-tv/the-big-food-fight/chicken-label-jargon-buster-08-01-07_p_1.html (Sorry, I can't do those neat 'here' signs and hyperlink the URL! Not worked it out) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 That is useful....thanks Olly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicki9 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Chelsea, my mum often buy's meat from Lloyd Maunder and always says it tastes much better, however she then - as many of us do - falls into the trap of supermarket being easier/ quicker. I'll remind her of this in light of Hugh's programme. If people made more of an effort about where they bought their meat, hubby included, then I'm sure most people would eat better, cheaper and healthier. It's not the farmers, they have to make a living, it's the supermarket trap that makes me feel really cross, we're going to try and live on food from the local farm shop and just go to the supermarket once a month for tinned stuff etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsea Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 It's not the farmers, they have to make a living, it's the supermarket trap that makes me feel really cross, I completely agree Nicki! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsea Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 That's really interesting Chelsea. I hope they are on tonight's programme. Are you a member of the River Cottage forum? Would be interesting to post it there. I'm not a member, otherwise I'd post myself. I've just been brave and posted on the RC website the same link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsea Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 me again read this link now its been updated since I last posted the link (on page 14 of this thread) to say that the footage will not be shown. http://www.lloydmaunder.co.uk/article.asp?id=53 I wonder why eh?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craftyhunnypie Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I'm going to catch up on last nights in a bit, then watch tonights (recorded again) straight after. My parents have gone right off chicken, even free range chicken & I'm very impressed that dad is looking for hidden eggs - bless him! Never thought I'd convert him! Just goes to show doesn't it? People DO need educating about where there food really comes from & the process it goes through. Emma.x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheilaz Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 There's a really helpful 'jargon buster' .... Tells you the requirements and the stocking densities, I believe.http://www.channel4.com/food/on-tv/the-big-food-fight/chicken-label-jargon-buster-08-01-07_p_1.html That's brilliant, Olly. I had read it a few days ago, but for anyone else with a headache trying to remember who said what, and which are facts, scroll to page 5! The Hugh programme is not a scientific experiment, so a lot will be portrayed deliberately to support a view, and edited according to this emphasis. You'd be hard put to find a TV programme out there that didn't! Controversy is inevitable as it's promoted as an experiment with an expectation of clearcut results and conclusions, whereas it's just a glimpse at 2 methods. Frustrating for those who would like real data, and also those who know that some details are not representative. However, these programmes and the attention they receive will at least have promoted discussion, awareness and interest in the subject of chicken welfare. I'd love to see the base standard practice raised, but think it is good that we have such a thing, if only labelling was easier to compare for everyone, without needing an in depth background knowledge. I'm horrified at the importing of birds without that lowest acceptable level of care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsea Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Cheek! I posted on the RC forum and they locked my thread! I posted on there that my hubbys company had participated in the filming of hugh's programme (even though on the programme hugh said no-one would help/take part) and pasted the link I've posted here, and they've locked my thread... Oooh errr Mrs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheilaz Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 You trouble-maker, Chelsea! No really, I was very interested in what you said, and I'm disappointed that Hugh made an untrue point, again & again! It backfires on a programme if you can't trust what you're told, doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsea Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 You trouble-maker, Chelsea! No really, I was very interested in what you said, and I'm disappointed that Hugh made an untrue point, again & again! It backfires on a programme if you can't trust what you're told, doesn't it? They've now removed my thread sheila! I rest my case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tessa the Duchess Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I think somebody who is really brave should go on their forum and ask why the thread was locked and then removed. This makes me really cross Tessa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsea Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 (edited) the plot thickens... the RC mod has just sent me a pm saying he removed the thread as there was already one going about "hugh's chicken run". But if you read down the whole front page of the "chat" section there are loads of threads referring to the same programme, also they havent been removed completely!!! now sent a pm to the RC mod saying I wasnt happy about it being deleted. Edited January 9, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenzin Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Im dreading watching this but can't help it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xChicken04x Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I'm watching it *gulps* anyone else? xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susanbb Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Oh Chelsea that is just not good. Makes you really angry doesn't it .At least you knopw on this forum you'll be listened to and your points respected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
