bronze Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Oh please don't I have sleepless nights considering these things. Maybe its about make a difference where we can and everyone can make a difference when it comes to chicken because its a couple of pounds a bird. Make two meals out of a bird for 4 people 25p extra a meal. I guess thats why we do the chickens thing. and cos we love them) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tessa the Duchess Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 - the point I'm trying to make is that we live in a complex and commercial world, where we rarely see how something is produced. Being totally ethical is nigh-on impossible, at least if you have limited funds, live in a suburban area and have to go to work and interact with other people - so we all close our eyes to some things, and we all draw a line somewhere. Sadly this is true. I recently read a book by Leo Hickman called 'A Life Stripped Bare' he tried to live completely ethically for a year along with his reluctant wife and 6 month old daughter. He looked into every area of his life, got rid of his car, changed bank accounts to the Co-op, only bought clothes from charity shops, carefully examined all food he bought to make sure it was produced in the UK, went on holiday to Europe using the train system etc., etc., It was VERY interesting and the whole family found the process really difficult. The book is written with great humour and gave me food for thought....organic of course Tessa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin B Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 All the meat we eat is free-range. Or 'outdoor reared' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I'm feeling really left out here. I worked on a chicken farm as a teenager in the '60's - on the killing and dressing lines and sometimes catching in the sheds. I'm a vegetarian now so don't eat any meat. All you lot can be all virtuous and say that you will only eat free range hens from now on etc. What am I going to change I'm only going to eat free range carrots. I'm not going to eat leek and potato soup made from battery leeks and intensively farmed potatoes. Um .... what else can I do? No, please don't tell me ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I'm feeling really left out here. I worked on a chicken farm as a teenager in the '60's - on the killing and dressing lines and sometimes catching in the sheds. I'm a vegetarian now so don't eat any meat. All you lot can be all virtuous and say that you will only eat free range hens from now on etc. What am I going to change I'm only going to eat free range carrots. I'm not going to eat leek and potato soup made from battery leeks and intensively farmed potatoes. Um .... what else can I do? No, please don't tell me ... well, I hope you don't knit with Merino wool from Australia and NZ! If you do, give it up immediately! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabergé Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I'm feeling really left out here. What am I going to change You could buy up all the vegetables that are the 'wrong shape' which the supermarkets reject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 It's scary how much waste food our current lifestyles create Watched 'kill it, cook it, eat it' last night. They were doing veal. I didn't realise that, due to the poor demand for veal, male calves of milk cows are shot and the majority of them incinerated as the meat is surplus to requirements! So this country would rather intensively farm chickens than eat meat that is naturally reared and could be bought cheaply! I'd rather eat a calf that had had a good life and been allowed to put a bit of weight on than an intensively reared chicken and the calf be incinerated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Are your knitting needles organically sourced from sustainable forests? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 It's scary how much waste food our current lifestyles create Watched 'kill it, cook it, eat it' last night. They were doing veal. I didn't realise that, due to the poor demand for veal, male calves of milk cows are shot and the majority of them incinerated as the meat is surplus to requirements! So this country would rather intensively farm chickens than eat meat that is naturally reared and could be bought cheaply! I'd rather eat a calf that had had a good life and been allowed to put a bit of weight on than an intensively reared chicken and the calf be incinerated. we bought some rose veal (not the cruel kind) from a farmers market not long ago, I made weiner schnitzel with it and it was delicious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsea Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 (edited) Watched 'kill it, cook it, eat it' last night. They were doing veal. I didn't realise that, due to the poor demand for veal, male calves of milk cows are shot and the majority of them incinerated as the meat is surplus to requirements! Never knew that either! poor little things...no life is it? I wouldnt buy veal personally, there is enough other meat to eat without eating baby cows. Edited January 10, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Trouble is, we all make a choice somewhere - we are all feeling smug about only eating free-range chicken and free-range eggs, but what about the other meat in your shopping list - do you only buy free-range beef, pork and ham? Do you buy farmed salmon? If you buy organic veg, are you sure they haven't been picked by exploited migrant workers? Do you only buy Fair Trade chocolate? Look around the house - where were your electrical goods made? Are your shoes and clothes all produced at full price, or do you congratulate yourself on the bargains you bought, even though they may have been produced in China by poorly-paid workers in dangerous conditions, possibly even by children? Do you care? Of course you do - and I couldn't answer yes to more than a couple of those questions either - the point I'm trying to make is that we live in a complex and commercial world, where we rarely see how something is produced. Being totally ethical is nigh-on impossible, at least if you have limited funds, live in a suburban area and have to go to work and interact with other people - so we all close our eyes to some things, and we all draw a line somewhere. Hayley and others like her have decided that the price of chicken is more important than the true cost; and some people will go on doing that, even after seeing these programmes. That's where they've drawn their line, a bit lower than some of us but they have their reasons. The only thing that will change their buying habits is if supermarkets stop stocking cheap meat, or the government legislates to prevent these production methods. Well said that girl! My thoughts exactly - we all 'cut our cloth accordingly', don't we? We choose what fits our lifestyles, ideals and pockets. Some of us are trying hard, but for various reasons,can't quite match the standards that we set ourselves. let's not beat ourselves up, just try our hardest, make small changes, which, added together will have a big impact. I for one am frustrated by lack of money and time, yet when I look back, Rosie and i have made so many changes in the last 3 or so years. And I am really proud of that. That's not to say that we shouldn't always set ourselves high standards - we all need to have something reasonable to aspire to.... just try not to be hard on yourselves. My resolution this year is to try to buy even more local produce and cut out the supermarkets where I can, so that the farmers get all the profit. It takes more planning as time constraints usually mean that I have to do the supermakret dash as well, but we'll do it, and just think of the example that we're setting our children Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Watched 'kill it, cook it, eat it' last night. They were doing veal. I didn't realise that, due to the poor demand for veal, male calves of milk cows are shot and the majority of them incinerated as the meat is surplus to requirements! Never knew that either! poor little things...no life is it? if there was a big enough demand for rose veal, that possibly wouldn't happen but people see the word 'veal' and it sets off the alarm bells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Trouble is, we all make a choice somewhere - we are all feeling smug about only eating free-range chicken and free-range eggs, but what about the other meat in your shopping list - do you only buy free-range beef, pork and ham? Do you buy farmed salmon? If you buy organic veg, are you sure they haven't been picked by exploited migrant workers? Do you only buy Fair Trade chocolate? Look around the house - where were your electrical goods made? Are your shoes and clothes all produced at full price, or do you congratulate yourself on the bargains you bought, even though they may have been produced in China by poorly-paid workers in dangerous conditions, possibly even by children? Do you care? Of course you do - and I couldn't answer yes to more than a couple of those questions either - the point I'm trying to make is that we live in a complex and commercial world, where we rarely see how something is produced. Being totally ethical is nigh-on impossible, at least if you have limited funds, live in a suburban area and have to go to work and interact with other people - so we all close our eyes to some things, and we all draw a line somewhere. Hayley and others like her have decided that the price of chicken is more important than the true cost; and some people will go on doing that, even after seeing these programmes. That's where they've drawn their line, a bit lower than some of us but they have their reasons. The only thing that will change their buying habits is if supermarkets stop stocking cheap meat, or the government legislates to prevent these production methods. Bravo Olly. :clap: I wish I'd said that Tremendous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsea Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Watched 'kill it, cook it, eat it' last night. They were doing veal. I didn't realise that, due to the poor demand for veal, male calves of milk cows are shot and the majority of them incinerated as the meat is surplus to requirements! Never knew that either! poor little things...no life is it? if there was a big enough demand for rose veal, that possibly wouldn't happen but people see the word 'veal' and it sets off the alarm bells. I edited my post Poet. Im sorry but I dont agree at all to veal...in my own personal opinion there is no need for baby cows to be eaten...there is enough meat out there for all meat eaters to enjoy without having to eat veal. I dont mean to offend its just my opinion.....I have always had this opinion on veal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 It's scary how much waste food our current lifestyles create Watched 'kill it, cook it, eat it' last night. They were doing veal. I didn't realise that, due to the poor demand for veal, male calves of milk cows are shot and the majority of them incinerated as the meat is surplus to requirements! So this country would rather intensively farm chickens than eat meat that is naturally reared and could be bought cheaply! I'd rather eat a calf that had had a good life and been allowed to put a bit of weight on than an intensively reared chicken and the calf be incinerated. I had this exact 'dsicussion' the other day - we said how cruel it is that we are throwing away food in this country, when there are people here who can hardly afford to eat... and don't get me started on how we could help the starving abroad if we didn't just incinerate the meat... it's a criminal waste of a life for the meat to be thrown away (not to mention a disrespect for life)!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 [I edited my post Poet. Im sorry but I dont agree at all to veal...in my own personal opinion there is no need for baby cows to be eaten...there is enough meat out there for all meat eaters to enjoy without having to eat veal. I dont mean to offend its just my opinion.....I have always had this opinion on veal. rose veal is completely different to the pale stuff, it's welfare friendly, google it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooner.girl Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Some farmers just shoot dairy bull calves at birth - no one wants them. When i used to farm lots in my teenage years I saw them go for £2 each at market - my farmer friend Tim had to almost sit on me once to stop me bidding! - not sure what my mum would have said to a herd of dairy cattle in the back garden... Not had much luck persuading DH since then either... Anyway... the HFW programmes were good though the slaughter was obviously not nice to watch. Opened DH's eyes a bit - he doesn't mind me buying organic meat but likes to moan about the cost sometimes. Funnily enough i think what bought it home and made it more personal to DH was seeing the chooks when it was dark in the shed for once, all dozing, half asleep - like ours do on the (rare) times he shuts them away at night... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flo Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Sorry - I didn't meant to make anyone have sleepless nights! I am very much of the opinion that if everyone does a little bit (buy free range, recycle) then it will make a big difference. I think I am just surprised about how much goes on that we are not aware about, and how little information there is on the alternatives. Changing your whole lifestyle if very disruptive and unachievable, but knowing what the small things you can do are is where we will be able to have an impact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhapsody Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I agree we all make decisions about what we will/will not buy into according to our belief system. I boycott an inordinate amount of stuff including anything from Norway (whaling), any non-British pork (farrowing crates) Non-British veal and milk (veal crates) and anything from ASDA (they dont pay a penny of income tax in this country) I'm sure I could carry on ad infinitum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jomaxsmith Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I edited my post Poet. Im sorry but I dont agree at all to veal...in my own personal opinion there is no need for baby cows to be eaten...there is enough meat out there for all meat eaters to enjoy without having to eat veal. I dont mean to offend its just my opinion.....I have always had this opinion on veal. The thing is that the calves will continue to be born and killed because they are necessary for the dairy industry. By creating a market for veal these calves could have a few more weeks of life and then die and be consumed rather than incinerated. If we drink milk and eat dairy products then it is maybe our duty to eat veal? Jo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules. Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Why doesn't ASDA pay income tax? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 If we drink milk and eat dairy products then it is maybe our duty to eat veal? Jo make sure it's rose veal though, it's welfare friendly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronze Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I edited my post Poet. Im sorry but I dont agree at all to veal...in my own personal opinion there is no need for baby cows to be eaten...there is enough meat out there for all meat eaters to enjoy without having to eat veal. I dont mean to offend its just my opinion.....I have always had this opinion on veal. The thing is that the calves will continue to be born and killed because they are necessary for the dairy industry. By creating a market for veal these calves could have a few more weeks of life and then die and be consumed rather than incinerated. If we drink milk and eat dairy products then it is maybe our duty to eat veal? Jo I have to say I had a similar conversation with someone recently. Really theres only two ways to go. Eat things like rose veal or go vegan. Half measures are just that... half measures. Having said all that I rarely eat veal but I never seem to come across it. It wouldnt stop me eating a nice bit of rose veal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooner.girl Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Why doesn't ASDA pay income tax? Is it cos they are american owned now? walmart? I dunno - am just guessing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jomaxsmith Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 nything from ASDA (they dont pay a penny of income tax in this country) Asda are dreadful - when i go in there I have a hard time finding British butter and apples. They've also recently launched a new range of speciality teas which come in plastic tea bags! How non-environmentally friendly is that! Jo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
