Trapper Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I bought my family a cube eight weeks ago after some extensive homework, or so I thought on the subject. We ended up buying 5 chickens, a cube and 3 extenstions in order to give the birds a good life or so we thought. When the run was delivered we were told that it was ample room for the chickens to live in full time with the occassional time being let out as we only have a small family garden. In the past 3 days one of our Pepperpots has decided to go Cannibalistic on one of the poor Gingernut Rangers. This morning the poor GN was just sitting on the ground in the middle of the run with the just pecking her to bits. I immediately rang the vets and made an appointment. While waiting the hour for our slot I rang up a couple of Poultry breeders and asked their advice and was told that a Cube with 3 extensions was not big enough and that the couse was down to the pecking order and bordom. On visiting the vets it was a case of if we put the GN back in the run she would continue to get pecked. If we kept her seperate upon the re-introduction she would again be like a new hen and get picked on again (back to square one). The hard decison came and together with the vet decided that she was in such a state that she had to be put down. Upon our return home we found that the had decided that she would now pick on the second GN and started on her. We have now removed the GN and put her in a friends ex-rabbit hutch in order to save the GN from the same stressful death as her mate. One poutry breeder told me that the majority of sprays do not work and that the eye googles are an effective way of stopping the feather plucking and that by 2 weeks the weaker chicken would be strong enough to hold her own. It is also meant to stop the dominant one from ruling the rooster so to speak for the period of wearing the mask. The point of this rant is that of all the Poultry keepers that I have spoken to nearly all say that the Cube and the extensions are not enough for 5 birds which is not what Omlet are telling everyone. Does anyone agree with? I feel so guilty buying 5 birds when 3 would have a happyier life, may be looking to re-house the problem bird but who will want her!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I am really sorry you have had such a difficult time, but I can't agree about the cube and run being the cause of the problem. With three extensions there is more than enough room for 5 hens. You may just have been unlucky with the particular personalities within your little flock. There does tend to be an anti Eglu/cube bias amongst some breeders and chicken keepers, as we have seen on other fora. Boredom can be addressed by giving them greens to peck at in the run, and mixed corn to scratch for. It sounds as if the pecking order issues got out of hand. The poultry breeder might not have had luck with anti peck spray, but many on the forum have, and there are anti peck rings and Bumpa bits too. The chicken spectacles are considered cruel by many as they interfere with the hens vision. Why not try the rogue hen with a bumpa bit and see how things go. You definitely do have enough room in the cube with three extensions. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper Posted March 31, 2008 Author Share Posted March 31, 2008 Thanks for being so kind. Have a good night Trapper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheik Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 There are more than enough posts on these forums from people whose flock has less space than yours to prove Egluntine is correct - it sounds as if you've been very unlucky with your chickens, but I suspect the same thing would have happened if you'd had more space. Good luck with whatever you decide. /\dam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Tilytinkle Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Hi there, so sorry to read your sad news, how awful for you , your family & the rangers. Please may i ask if they were all put into cube at the same time, if they all got along well to begin with. You said you'd had them 8 weeks, were they all okay until just 3 days ago . .i am thinking, also a little worried as i have 6 in a cube with only 2 extension runs. I have 2 wooden branches set up at different heights for perches, a log trunk to stand up on & was just thinking of popping in a mirror somewhere for when they're not free ranging. Anyway - What concerns me is mine all seem to get along really well at the moment, but just wondering if yours were coming into laying, could/would that have changed their temprements at all. As my 3 Pepperpots look far more developed then my other 3, how awful for you mustve been so distressing - devastating!! Bless, how heartbreaking. Nothing i can say will ease your distress, but my thoughts & prayers are with you All, I am so sorry for your loss but i don't think you can or should feel guilty, maybe even if they'd been free ranging full time still they would've had the pecking order & bullying. Suffice but to say i hope soon you are enjoying your lovely chickens again & the cube suits its purpose for which you purchased it. What an awful start but i hope all changes very soon & nicer happier experiences fill your memories. Ms Tillysendsmanyprayersandbestwishes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper Posted March 31, 2008 Author Share Posted March 31, 2008 Ms Tily Thanks for the kind words. Yes every thing was ok until 3 days ago. We got all our girls together 4 from Omlet 2 Pepperpots and 2 Gingernut Rangers and one Amberlink from a local Poultry supplier on the same day. The supplier was worried that the Aberlink would have problems as she is pure white and that chickens don't like others of verying differences in colour but she was only pecked for 2 days and then accepted. However the Aberlink laid eggs straight away for 8 days and then has stopped completly?? The 2 Pepperpots came into lay on 22 March (i only rember because it was my Birthday ) The 2 Gingernuts were the smallest of the girls so maybe a reason for being at the bottom of the pecking order. Just checked on Borat the Cannibal and she's fast asleep on her own for the next 2 days in a Rabbit hutch until my Bumper Bits arrive. Hope that yours don't go the same way. Must have the same ideas on how to keep chickens though, my set up is identical to yours Have you been spying on me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Tilytinkle Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 (edited) Hi, hmmmm i have eagle eyed perspectives at times but seeing your Cube in Crawley . .. er no We have 6 all different pairings .. .i would be devastated if they start pecking, i have one white, one blue bell, one speckled . .hmm & 3 pepperpots .. . at the moment they stick together like glue - all forage together, eat together drink together one does something & the other 5 follow suit. Oooh fingers crossed . . . seems like the luck of the draw more than anything us humans can do Blessings to you & yours Edited April 1, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura & CTB Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Oooh fingers crossed . . . sems like the luck of the draw more than anything us humans can do I agree with that one - I only have the two chooks in a huge run with lots of things to keep them amused and for the best part of a year Prada has been pulling Gucci's feathers out - not drawing blood but I've always assumed that was only one step away. I dont know what makes one chook decide to do it and others not I hope the bumper bits do the trick for you Trapper. Let us know how you get on. BTW - Are you in Crawley near me?? (I know there's more than one Crawley in the UK). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallina Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Out of eight hens over a number of years, I have had one cannibal. I think there are some high-spirited hyperactive hens for whom no run would be big enough, and you have been unlucky. This type of hen misbehaves wherever she is. I watch Country File on Sunday mornings, and they showed a delightful free-range farm: yet I saw just one hen there with a clipped beak. I would say to everyone that as soon as you see any trouble, fit a bumper bit. (Make sure you order bumper bits when you order your hens.) In the end my cannibal hen's beak grew so long around her bumper bit that she was able to damage the others badly even when she was wearing it, and I gave her to a farm. Now peace reigns, and I hope that she has been startled out of her bad behaviour. I now have four hens in the Cube and four new babies in the Eglu, but this ratio will change to six/two when I see which ones get on best together. There is plenty of room in the runs for well-behaved hens. I think it might be an idea to choose placid hens rather than feisty ones if you have to keep your hens in the run nearly all the time, as I do. And I feel very sorry for you: I don't think people realize how horrible it is when you see one hen starting to eat another alive. I could not have imagined it before it happened to me, and it is very frightening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRC99 Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 I would certainly agree with the comments so far. A cube and 3 extensions is lots of room. We have 4 who spend most of their time in a cube and 1 extension and are quite happy. I'm really sorry to hear what happened but would just echo others' thoughts in that you've been unlucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Tilytinkle Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Just to comment on Gallina's post, i can't even imagine anything worse happening for my wimpish softy demeanor . . i would be truly absolutely horrified, terrified not knowing how to stop it, what to do to prevent it, very concerned & most distressed actually i would be devastated for the hurt injured attacked chicken. Please may i add a few questions re this topic: What, if anything, in anyones experience triggers the attacking off, is it hormonal, as they mature at a certain age they become more aggressive, is it there right from the day they're hatched & there's signs of it, is there typical behaviour also associated with this type of fierce cannibal. Ms Tilyprayinghergentlelovelychooksremainlovelygentleandfriendly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xScrunchee Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 I had to rehome 2 hens due to behaviour problems It was an awful time and to be honest I still miss them but poor Rose was in quite a state so I didn't have much choice. I now have 2 new girls in with Rose. The introductions went well and they all settled down with eachother nicely. Now Brandee has started to pluck the legs of Rose and Jasmine! I am going to end up fitting her with a bumper bit but to be honest I don't have much confidence that this will do much good as I know from past experience that once the beak grows around the bumper bit there is little left to do. I now have a walk in run as I thought that it was lack of space which caused the problems with the last two, although it was not. I am always hanging things up for them to peck at and making sure that they have plenty to do but alas-here we go again!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAJ Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 It is amazing what different breeders say - I dare say in this situation they were thinking you had 5 in an eglu, not a cube which are very different in size abd run size. The cube with extensions is way above any quoted size needed by any poultry book/site. When I was looking for hens and asked which breeds got on I was told 'they do not care what colour the others are' and yet someone on this thread was told by a breeder that a single white hen would be picked on due to its colour. My advice would be to use the forum and the experience of others that have a cube and at least this number of hens in it, not the advice of breeders who have never seen your set up. Sorry to here it has turned out to be such a negative experience for you and your girls - lets hope things improve now. Tracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janty Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 I agree that the three extensions would be plenty for your girls. I have two cubes each with the standard run and two extentions. The first one has seven hens in it but some of these are large breeds and there is one miniature who chose to live there rather than with the bantams. I wish that these girls had more space but rather than buy them another extention we are planning on having a walk in run built. The second cube is home to four ex-battery hens. In each of the runs, I have branches for them to perch on, a peckablock and an apple hanger from Haiths. I have the peckablock and apple hanger hanging on a length of chain. This keeps them occupied for ages as the chain swings backwards and forwards as they peck it. I also have extra grubs and glugs. I haven't had any problems even when I inadvertently had two cockerels living in the cube. I think that as other have said, you were just unlucky in having an out and out bully in with your flock. By the way, I'm not sure that your other bird would be seen as an outsider if you had to isolate her and then return her to the flock. My cochin regularly gets broody and on one occasion I had to put her in a broody pen for a week.When she was returned to the flock, there was no hassle at all and it was like she had never been away. Maybe other people could share their experiences of separation and reintegration with you but I have never had any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superjules Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 My advice would be to use the forum and the experience of others that have a cube and at least this number of hens in it, not the advice of breeders who have never seen your set up. Lots of old-style poultry places are very negative about the Omlet products, - yet few have ever seen one or have any experience of one. The rule of thumb seems to be 1m sq per hen of outside space. I'm so sorry you've had such an awful experience, that's really bad luck. Starting off with chickens should be a pleasure. As Gallina says, there are some (fortunately very few) hens for whom no run would be big enough. She may do better in a big flock with a cockerel to keep her in line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trapper Posted April 1, 2008 Author Share Posted April 1, 2008 Laura & CTB Thanks for the comments. Yes I'm in Crawley, Gatwick. We live in Maidenbower so you will know that the garden is not hugh only 50' x 50'. But with 4 kids and 4 cats we thought how difficult will it be to look after a few chickens. Bumper Bits on order but having read some of the quotes here it seems that they are only a short term solution, In that you have to keep them on permenantly and that their beaks can grow over the Bit and the problem starts over again. However we are willing to try anything. Fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janty Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Good luck with the bumper bits. Hope everything gets sorted out. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druids57 Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Just to say I am so sorry you have had such a bad experience I too would be devastated. Take Care of yourself it must have shaken you teriibly. Druid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirkwood Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Regards the feelling of old style poultry people being negative towards Omlet, yes i have to agree, i was buying from a feed store and they hate Omlet saying that they are in it for money and its a gimmick and they don't consider the welfare of the hens. Also i did belong to another forum who were, shall we say, less than free with their praise for Omlet, but i have to say that i would sooner belong to this forum than any other as you have all been such a help to me and my hens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura & CTB Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Bumper Bits on order but having read some of the quotes here it seems that they are only a short term solution, In that you have to keep them on permenantly and that their beaks can grow over the Bit and the problem starts over again. However we are willing to try anything. Fingers crossed. You may not have to keep the bumper bits on permanently - it varies from chook to chook as to how effective they are at stopping the problem. You may only have to do it for the short term. I've had an ongoing problem with Prada for nearly a year and after using bumper bits, peck rings and Ukadex, I'm hoping the problem is now solved Am also PM'ing you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superjules Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Regards the feelling of old style poultry people being negative towards Omlet, yes i have to agree, i was buying from a feed store and they hate Omlet saying that they are in it for money and its a gimmick and they don't consider the welfare of the hens. Also i did belong to another forum who were, shall we say, less than free with their praise for Omlet, but i have to say that i would sooner belong to this forum than any other as you have all been such a help to me and my hens. It's all just bad feeling because Omlet has a product that they can't copy and if they've been making money out of selling wooden houses they must feel pretty threatened. Anyone who actually sees an eglu can't fail to be impressed. Omlet have brought chicken keeping to lots of people who wouldn't have otherwise considered it, myself included. This forum is fab - so many lovely, helpful people to natter with about chooks! Trapper - I hope the bumper bits do the trick. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hen Watch Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Trapper, I just wanted to add my sympathy that one of your girls had to be put down. How awful for you. I do think the "advice" you were given about not enough space may have been given wrongly. The eglu is well known in it's original format (such as I have) and I agree, 5 birds in an eglu is too many. To be fair to the breeder they probably haven't seen or heard of an eglu cube or know of it's size. There is a bit of anti eglu feeling from some quarters but everyone who has seen my set up has been amazed at the clean eglu that can be power washed in seconds. Hope the bumper bits work. Think you are unlucky to have a really agressive one. Hope it stops as suddenly as it all started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aunty e Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 You poor thing. You've been really really unlucky. My mob free range a lot of the time, but there can be weeks where they don't come out for more than an hour a day and I've never had any trouble with pecking - I think you must have a 'rogue' chook. I have a really really dominant head chicken, and I've always assumed that she kept the others in line. Maybe you could get a big fat mature hen to keep your trouble maker henpecked? Mine is a Black Rock and she's a total doll. One thing I did do, to give mine a bit more space and a safe place for newbies (my three new ones have been hanging out up there quite a bit), was build a little mezzanine level. Really easy, took about half an hour with a drill and some screws and a bit of wood and a bunch of cable ties. piccie here ps I resized this to 'message board' but it still seems big to me, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirkwood Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 please don't think i was being critical of omlet i wasn't. people hate a winning formula Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flo Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Hi Trapper I have had a very good experience with bumper bits. One of my girls, Mabel really pecked the other, Luci, last summer, lots of feathers and blood everywhere! It had started off with just feather pulling but then one day she just kept going! We took Luci to the vet to get her sorted and fitted a bumper bit to Mabel. The feather pulling stopped immeduiately and since then they have been fine. The bumper bit fell off a few weeks ago, so we decided to try leaving it off. Two days later I caught Mabel plucking Luci's feathers so it went back on again! I haven't had a big problem with her beak growing over it but I am not sure how long this would take? She has been wearing ione for about 9 months now. Good luck with it, I hope they all start getting along better Flo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...