chelsea Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 does anyone know anything about employment law/working conditions/unions? We've received some shocking news today regarding hubby's job. Some of you may or may not be aware he is a chicken catcher. Has worked for one of the UK's largest leading poultry plants for 18 years who supply most of the major and exclusive supermarkets. They are cutting the catchers pay by over half , putting them on salary - so they receive no overtime or bonus. The company was taken over by another company in Feb this year and this new company are totally usesless - people dont get paid ontime, staff dont receive their payslips, and the company that has taken over are well known for being "cowboys" and running up debt. I just cant comprehend that someone can just come along and cut pay by over half without their being some law/rule to protect workers? We think this company is trying to incurr "forced redundancy" as all these poor people will have to leave and get jobs elsewhere and I think the company have no intentions to pay redundancy as most of the staff have been there for 20-40 years - so it will cost a lot of money. Anyone who can shed any light or recommendations on who we can contact/research would be great. Hubby is a member of the TGWU and apparently they are having a meeting on monday (I wish I could go - im SO angry ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tina C Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Oh Chelsea, that is horrible news. I am sorry I don't have anything reassuring to say as I don't know anything about employment law but its good that the union is involved - they will have experienced lawyers who surely will be able to do something to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickencam Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Try giving your local Citizens advice a ring they may be able to point you in the right direction. I know that there is such a thing as contructive dismissal, when employers make life unbearable for an employee so that they leave, this can certainly be acted upon legally. Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsea Posted May 16, 2008 Author Share Posted May 16, 2008 thankyou folks, im going to write all the ideas/suggestions down so keep them coming if you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizinsa Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Surely this fits under TUPE? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TUPE Sorry I'm not an expert but a member of family was in a similar situation and I remember him mentioning this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couperman Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 I am no expert and could be wrong but as I understand it a company cannot impose a new contract on anyone unless both parties agree. If they take over another firm then they must adopt the contracts employees have with the previous employer. If they insist on the new contract and the employee won't sign it then I think they would have to make him redundant as per the conditions of his current contract. I am not sure how this all fits in with temporary or contract staff though. Surely it can't be legal to scew people over like that. I am sure the union will know how to tackle it. Sorry to hear this I hope you get it sorted out. I can't help thinking the supermarkets are to blame for forcing suppliers to sell thier produce at impossible prices. Kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsea Posted May 16, 2008 Author Share Posted May 16, 2008 Surely this fits under TUPE? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TUPE Sorry I'm not an expert but a member of family was in a similar situation and I remember him mentioning this that is brilliant! thanks, im going to print it out. We need all this stuff to fight with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenanne Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 I think the TGWU would be the best people to give advice. However, for what it's worth.... I think the only way the employer could force a genuine take-home pay cut would be to make everyone redundant then re-employ them at the new rate. They would then be obliged to pay redundancy. - BUT - Employers can change some terms and conditions easily enough, e.g. it is perfectly OK for them to replace hourly rate with a salary, or no longer allow overtime /pay for overtime. What they could do, for instance, is to replace (a) an hourly rate for a full time employee, with (b) a salary for a 35-40 hour week. I don't think you could then succesfully claim that they were forcing you to take a pay-cut because working overtime is not something you're entitled to, even if this meant you earned less each week. So a lot of changes like this aren't as clear-cut as people initially think, and you do have to be careful. Basically, I would wait to see what the Union say; in the vast majority of cases, you're in a stronger position acting en masse. I think you're legally entitled to pay slips and definitely to be being paid on time, though how much you can do about short delays etc is a bit debateable in practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenanne Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 oh, and to add: a further problem is that most peoples employment contracts are not what they think they are - they are, after all, written by the employer and can be fairly general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 (edited) Oh no Chelsea, what a worry! I agree with Lizinsa - TUPE should apply when a company takes over a another, any staff they also take on should have the TUPE protection, although usually only for a year, but at least it gives you chance to make other plans. Edited to add: OH has just reminded me you are only protected for 3 months Edited May 16, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cate in NZ Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Sorry, I have no advice on this, being incredible ill informed as far as employment law goes, but I'm simply staggered that a company can do this . I do hope that your hubby and his work colleagues can get some good help with fighting this from TGWU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsea Posted May 16, 2008 Author Share Posted May 16, 2008 but I'm simply staggered that a company can do this . . So are we Kate Chicken catching is not easy, hubby works in terrible conditions, bent over for most of his shift, hands in chicken poo, wearing breathing apparatus and in the summer in really hot chicken houses. We worked out this morning that if he did a 12-15 hour shift (which he does do some days ) he would be earning less than the minimum wage! this company are living in a dreamworld if they think they are going to get people to do that kind of job for that kind of money, im fuming!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggy Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 NO WAY thats terrible I'm sure they cannot do that, the other posts are right you have more chance of fighting this if you stick together, good luck with your OH meeting surely this is what you pay your union dues for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Appalling news. I am really sorry to hear about it. I sincerely hope that the unions can sort the matter out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackiepoppies Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Dreadful news and an awful worry for you. Times are hard enough as it is what with all the hidden taxes that are being forced on everyone. The only extra thought I had on this dilemma is that if the new company manages to get rid of most of these employees....that will leave them free to employ migrant EU workers 'cos it will be a job no one else wants at those wages! Very good luck and make the union help you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Sorry to hear this, can't offer much advice but take a look here, it's the TUC website which has some very good practical tips on. Your husband's best bet is to go via the union, I do hope they can do something. Unfortunately contract workers are often excluded from some of the employment protection legislation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paola Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 So sorry to hear Chelsea I hate it when big companies think they can just ride roughshod over people and get away with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesley Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 How terrible! I would have thought it was covered by TUPE as well - Carl has recently had a lot of TUPE stuff to deal with, I'll ask him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helly Welly Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 I'm sorry i can't give you any practical advice, i know nothing about this sort of stuff. I just wanted to say how sorry i am, i can't believe that anyone with a conscience can do that sort of thing. I really hope the union sorts something out, this just can't be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tessa the Duchess Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 I can't help either Chelsea, but am so sorry that you are having to go through all this rubbish. If that is how they treat their workers, I hate to think how they treat the chickens Tessa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missuscluck Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Chelsea, sorry I cant offer any advice either, but just wanted to say thats rough and I hope you get some good advice from the union. Dosent sound right at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theherd123 Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Chelsea im sorry to hear you and your OH are going through this - very worrying and stressful indeed. I would have thought the unions would know all the 'ins and outs' of situations like this and im sure they will be a great help. Having had to consult with my union recently i couldnt have asked for better help and guidance so i hope your OH gets the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surferdog Posted May 16, 2008 Share Posted May 16, 2008 Chelsea, I hope the union can sort this out for you - it is just plain wrong. Sadly there seems to be a lot of this about in the Food supply industry. My OH works for a large supermarket (not that one !) and was recently forced to sign a change of contract meaning he has to work every bank holiday, 3 weekends out of 4 and gets allocated holiday which is never in school holiday time. By forced I mean if you signed you were given a 'loan' of £3000 repayable if you left before 5 years and if you didn't sign you were out on your ear.... so between a rock and a hard place if you have a family to support. BUT there was still an agreement of some description - I would be surprised if it is legal for them to just foist this on him. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 17, 2008 Share Posted May 17, 2008 what a worrying time! I hope everyone sticks together (it's times like these when companies try to divide and conquer) and the union can sort it out. Surely it can't be legal!??? keeping everything x'd for you xxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsea Posted May 17, 2008 Author Share Posted May 17, 2008 thanks for all your kind wishes everyone. (the family are going through a hard time at the moment.) so this job stuff is all we need. We wont go down without a fight though!! hubby's catching team has big meeting monday 9am with one of the big cheeses from the company..so we will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
