Poorly chicken

[Moonie]

Or should i say lack of sleeping advice!! My 2 yr old used to be a fabulous sleeper, but in the last 7 months, yes that's 7 months he hasn't slept the night and wakes up about 2 or 3 times a night. We have tried everything, cuddles, new bedding, leaving him cry for a short time (can't do longer, not a fan of controlled crying) It started off with him just having a cold which just woke him up as it would, but he hasn't got out of the habit. all advice gratefully accepted. Sooooooooooooooooo tired!!

[bluekarin]

I really feel for you. It's awful when they wake you up at night, especially when you get used to the luxury of sleeping all night. I'm afraid I'd suggest the dreaded controlled crying. Let him cry for a bit, then go and him tuck him back in, then leave the room, and then gradually make it longer before going to him. No eye contact or conversation. It sounds harsh, but if they think they'll get a cuddle everytime they wake up crying, they'll just do it more. I have three of the little devils, sorry angels and have found this worked for me.

Good luck and wishing you a good nights sleep soon!

[Yorkshire Pudding]

That's very good advice from bluekarin, it worked well for us too. Controlled crying is much harder on the adults than the littlie. It took a few nights of shot nerves on our part when he was about 8 months, but DS2 soon broke the habit of waking. It sounds like your son has got out of the habit of sleeping through, when he was ill he learned to wake and get attention from you, and unless you can break that habit he will keep on waking even though he is now well again. I can understand your reluctance to let him cry but I really don't think it does any harm. I also made sure never to make eye contact or speak when I went in, just tuck in and leave. You need to give a clear message that night time is for sleep not talking or play and it really is effective.

 

My friend had two non-sleepers; she had got into the habit of going into their bedrooms every single time they stirred, so neither had ever learned to sleep by themselves all night. Neither had ever been left to fall asleep by themself either, from baby hood they had been rocked to sleep and later cuddled to sleep then put into their beds.

 

When her youngest was three (and she was exhausted) we had a very loud conversation in his earshot about how big boys like him didn't need to get up in the night, how mummies and daddies didn't need to come in to them every time they stirred and how they could just turn over and go back to sleep by themselves. Little ones are notorious for listening in to everything. He earwigged the conversation, slept through that night for the first time ever, and continued to do so unless he was ill. Now she lets them go up to bed themselves, reads a story, tucks them in and LEAVES - something she never thought she'd be able to do with them.

 

Maybe something similar might help your little one? It sounds a bit oversimplistic, but I promise you it really did work.

[Blackrocksrock]

Having watched nanny 911 - the controlled crying is the only way I am afraid but if you can stick it it works and doesnt take too long - best in the long run I feel.

In so saying I never had any bother with mine but I have seen lots of my friends and their childrens children still up at 10p.m. Mine were in bed early!

 

I think they have just got out of the habit and it wont take long to get back into it - you will be pleased with yourself when it happens

[Moonie]

thank you for some great advice! Much better to get advice from mums rather than experts. I shall try longer crying in the hope he will go back on his own. I suppose there's always whiskey! For me that is!

[feemcg]

One of mine had a brief spell of getting back up during the night...one night I'd had enough and took her down to the dark living room, put the telly on and said if you want to be up there you go...and I went back to bed. She came up crying a wee while later and I gave her the choice....go back to bed or stay downstairs by yourself.....she never got up again!

[SarahJo]

Went through this when YS had susp meningitis, and ES was upset about him being poorly. We did the moving chair initially - then bought a set of string lights with cars on (John Lewis and others sell loads of different ones). Timer switch on the lights - and you don't get up till these come on . Unless sick/need loo - both boys still have them as alarm clocks - though they are now football lights .

[riane]

I think the controlled crying is a good method to try and as long as you are consistent they usually get the message. It worked with my three girls but with my first child I was not very confident and just gave in all the time. He was never a good sleeper until.....he was 10. He is now 20 and I struggle to get him out of bed!! Worth remembering when you are at one of those middle of the night low moments!

[drcara]

Hi

 

I know you said that taking advice from mothers is better than professionals. But if the above suggestions don't help then I'll give you my email address. I'm an NHS Consultant Child Psychiatrist (medically trained). Would be happy to help!

Cara

[feemcg]

Cara.....you should never have admitted that here.....you'll be inundated with requests.....so when's good for you to discuss my 'trying' teenage daughter

[Hen Watch]

Oh Moonie, I know how hard it is to do the controlled crying.

 

It worked for us many years ago and took about a week. But I had to get my husband to do it. He's much stronger than I and I always wanted to go to her rather than sticking by the clock, but luckily he stopped me and took over. I am glad we perservered as it did crack the problem but it was hard work.

[Moonie]

Thanks everyone, i have seen a health visitor today, and she also suggested the dreaded controlled crying, don't talk to him, but to keep putting him back to bed. Tough as it's going to be, i'm going to just have to do it. I think i'll be a big brave girl and start tonight!!! Thanks for the advice, and i shall give you a little pm drcara if it just gets too tough!

The husband will have to take over, when i hear coddle (cuddle) mummy.

Anyway on a lighter note i had my wir built today by tony and i am most happy with it!

[feemcg]

Pop your wee fella out in the run and tell him it's his new bedroom.......he might prefer his bed

[Moonie]

Pop your wee fella out in the run and tell him it's his new bedroom.......he might prefer his bed

 

mmmmm tempting!!

[iar fach goch]

Good luck with the controlled crying tonight, I always found a large bar of chocolate and a friendly forum useful when crying started before I got to bed, and a pillow to bite!/put over my head once in bed. Also essential is OH cos if he's anything like mine the crying won't get to him at all and he'll be able to cope quite easily. I must admit, I ended up sleeping in the living room eventually with son no3 otherwise I would have given in. Just remember, it will be worth it in the end.

[Ygerna]

Carefully putting my head over the parapet..I am going to go against the grain here. I dont like CC

 

One of several possible solutions is to break the sleep/wake cycle. Sleep is a pattern of cycles, going through different stages through the cycle before starting over again. Some stages are deep, others very light (which is when waking can occur). If you can see a pattern to his waking, similar times of the night, then you can use this as a tool to try and break the habit/cycle. As an example, if his first waking episode is usually around midnight, go to his room and gently rouse him, you dont have to wake him up completely just enough to jump his sleep cycle into restarting. It may take a little longer than CC, but its certainly less upsetting to the child.

 

Have you read 'The no-cry Sleep Solution'? I really think it may offer you some more, gentler options to his waking habits than CC.

 

I should point out that our 2yr 8 month old is waking up most nights, however, we just let him get in with us and we all then go to sleep. Sometimes his 9 month old baby brother is in there with us too My mum once told me I was 'making a rod for my own back' when I told her we did this but I completely disagreed. Letting him sleep with us works for us all because we all get sleep without the distressing crying and sobbing. It wont be like this forever. Children are only children for such a short amount of time. If I were marooned on a dessert island somewhere with my children we would sleep together, right next to me, probably in my arms so I could be sure they were safe and so that they could feel safe in return. Just because we are living in a house does not stop them from needing to feel safe and secure at night.

 

At the end of the day though, this is simply my thoughts, everyone is different with very individual ideas about parenting. What works for one, wont necessarily be a solution for another. I hope you find an answer soon, Sleep deprivation is the worst.

[alih]

I had to do controlled crying once with my daughter and it really helped me to think of it as helping her to get herself back off to sleep on her own rather than needing an adult to help her. SHe had been ill too and got into the habit of waking. It took 2 nights to get her back into her habit. It isn't nice but putting that positive slant on it made it better. Good luck!

[Moonie]

Carefully putting my head over the parapet..I am going to go against the grain here. I dont like CC

 

One of several possible solutions is to break the sleep/wake cycle. Sleep is a pattern of cycles, going through different stages through the cycle before starting over again. Some stages are deep, others very light (which is when waking can occur). If you can see a pattern to his waking, similar times of the night, then you can use this as a tool to try and break the habit/cycle. As an example, if his first waking episode is usually around midnight, go to his room and gently rouse him, you dont have to wake him up completely just enough to jump his sleep cycle into restarting. It may take a little longer than CC, but its certainly less upsetting to the child.

 

Have you read 'The no-cry Sleep Solution'? I really think it may offer you some more, gentler options to his waking habits than CC.

 

I should point out that our 2yr 8 month old is waking up most nights, however, we just let him get in with us and we all then go to sleep. Sometimes his 9 month old baby brother is in there with us too My mum once told me I was 'making a rod for my own back' when I told her we did this but I completely disagreed. Letting him sleep with us works for us all because we all get sleep without the distressing crying and sobbing. It wont be like this forever. Children are only children for such a short amount of time. If I were marooned on a dessert island somewhere with my children we would sleep together, right next to me, probably in my arms so I could be sure they were safe and so that they could feel safe in return. Just because we are living in a house does not stop them from needing to feel safe and secure at night.

 

At the end of the day though, this is simply my thoughts, everyone is different with very individual ideas about parenting. What works for one, wont necessarily be a solution for another. I hope you find an answer soon, Sleep deprivation is the worst.

 

I totally agree with you on this one, it's customary (sp) in some countries. But have to say we don't get great quality sleep when he does come in with us so still feel tired. I have put it off for such a long time in the hope that it would resolve itself, but it hasn't so i shall see. I have heard of the technique of stirring them just before they would normally wake up as this works some how?? Any how i'll give him a week and then have a re think. But thank you for all your advice it is very much appreciated.

[xScrunchee]

I hate the thought of contolled crying too I'm afraid

 

As much as sleep deprivation is most unpleasant-I would not be able to let my child cry itself to sleep. I'd end up crying more than the child I think! lol

 

Maybe I'm just a bit crazy but in my opinion this is all just part of being a parent.

To me the most important thing is that my children are happy and feel safe. It's true that they are only children for a little while and I like to think that my children never doubt my love for them. I want to make them feel safe, loved, protected.

 

How would they feel if I left them to cry? Alone, afraid and fearing that Mummy is not there when they need her most.

Not my cup of tea to be honest but different strokes for different folks and all that

[Rhapsody]

I think it is a bit simplistic to describe CC as 'leaving them to cry'- it isn't like that at all. Sleep is a basic human right and need, and without it I personally am useless to my children and horrible to everyone. We put a stairgate up in the kids doorway, I was quite happy to go and help go to loo/potty whatever or find out what was wrong, but kids were put back to bed in their own beds once it was ascertained they weren't distressed or ill, just awake, and leaving the bedroom was not allowed. My neigbour who played musical beds with her kids all night for 5 years ended up on Prozac through sleep deprivation and her husband went to live at his mums!

[bluekarin]

Controlled crying isn't leaving them all alone for hours to cry themselves back to sleep. It's for a short while, maybe a minute to start with, you go and tuck them in and they know everything is okay and mummy or daddy is nearby. Sleep is so important for both the children and the parents and you are not denying your child your love and attention if you let them cry for a bit at night in order to get sleep patterns back on track. It should only take a couple of days, not weeks and weeks.

 

I will say my ED was a nightmare about sleeping, especially when she was a baby. She'd wake up and start crying and if we wren't there, within a minute, she'd be sick everywhere. My parents said we should just let her cry, but we couldn't. With her I had to sit on a chair not looking at her and slowly move the chair further and further away until I was out of the room. It took a hell of a long time I can tell you.

 

It would be interesting to hear from people whose kids are now grown up who let their them sleep with them night after night and how that got resolved. If it did

[fluffyknickers]

Ah afriad to say I am a bit of an expert on this as have had problems with both my children (although with my daughter it hasnt helped she has a medical condition).

 

The problems resulted in me paying for a sleep specialist who works with you to get the result. If you do decide to go down this route please do pm me and I can sernd you her details (since helping me she has helped two of my friends one with twins).

 

What I highly reccomend is a magic light. This is a dim nightlight that is plugged into a timer, the timer is set to come on in the morning and if they wait til their light comes on before shouting out/getting out of bed they are rewarded with stickers eg glow in the dark stickers. Once they get say, 3 stickers, they then received either a treat or special present - doesnt have to be big could be a rise on a bus, a sheet of stickers, colouring book, a trip to the park with a picnic. It is important that you have a realistic time for the light to come on and so that you can give them some positive results eg set it for earlier than they would wake - this would mean you get to congratulate you them and they see how wonderful it is to wait for the light but also if they are not ready to wake the light is so low it wont actually wake them.

 

It is also all about consistency, eg with my son when he woke screaming I didnt go in but said the same thing at the door such as "it is bedtime, your light is not on"

 

I also have to ensure that everything that he could ask for is near him eg his trick was to ask for water or a tissue - so there would be water and tissues within his reach so I could say "it is bedtime, your light is not on and you know where your water is"

 

However each child is different and the 'programme' for my daughter was different and involved laying on her floor and getting further away each night as i could not do controlled crying with her as she made herself sick and just would not stop.

 

It is of course important if you are going to do controlled crying that it is 'controlled'.

 

It is very tough and I have spent many nights in tears but it can get better.

Michelle

[Kalu]

Hi

Hope the CC works for you, must admit i have never tried it.

 

My son is just 4 and he often likes to go to sleep listening to music, he has a Classic FM for babies CD which is really lovely and calming. I put it on repeat so it just keeps playing really softly in his room and that seems to help settle him. He does occasionally ask for other music although I drew the line at the Ligh tning Mc Queen cd! He does have a small nightlight.

 

Just a couple of suggestions that may help, apologies if you have already tried them.

 

Hope you all get a good nights sleep soon,

K

[xScrunchee]

Controlled crying isn't leaving them all alone for hours to cry themselves back to sleep. It's for a short while, maybe a minute to start with, you go and tuck them in and they know everything is okay and mummy or daddy is nearby. Sleep is so important for both the children and the parents and you are not denying your child your love and attention if you let them cry for a bit at night in order to get sleep patterns back on track. It should only take a couple of days, not weeks and weeks.

 

I will say my ED was a nightmare about sleeping, especially when she was a baby. She'd wake up and start crying and if we wren't there, within a minute, she'd be sick everywhere. My parents said we should just let her cry, but we couldn't. With her I had to sit on a chair not looking at her and slowly move the chair further and further away until I was out of the room. It took a hell of a long time I can tell you.

 

It would be interesting to hear from people whose kids are now grown up who let their them sleep with them night after night and how that got resolved. If it did

 

When my daughter was born she slept in my bed with me.

When she was around 18 months old I got her a bed with a safety rail and had her bed next to my bed. If she woke up I would either get into her bed or she would climb in with me. This made falling back to sleep much easier as it saved having to keep putting her into her own bed again and again etc. She is now 9 years old and in her own room (through her own choice). She goes to bed at 8.30pm every night (again her own choice) and sleeps soundly through the night.

 

My son did have a cot right next to my bed but 9 times out of 10 he would end up in my bed. He is now 4 and has his bed next to mine. He rarely wakes up in the night but if he does-he just gets into my bed and falls straight back to sleep.

He is now starting to feel that he is nearly ready to sleep in the other bedroom. (His own choice).

 

I feel that because my children knew that they could be with me for as long as they felt they needed to-it has helped them to feel safe and secure and make their own decision as to when they sleep alone.

 

I believe that there is no right and wrong with children. Every family is different and indeed every child is different. I just think that we should all think 'out of the box' and stop worrying about conforming with what and how society expects us to be.

 

Do what is best for you and your children and who cares what anyone else thinks!

 

In many cultures families share beds/rooms etc. All other mammals sleep with their offspring to keep them safe and warm at night.

Us humans are a funny bunch really and rather than go with what we feel-we end up going along with what other people do, listen to what other people think is right etc.

 

Just my opinion of course but I certainly won't live my life or raise my children according to what is OK with the 'majority' if I don't feel it's right for us.

[Moonie]

Controlled crying isn't leaving them all alone for hours to cry themselves back to sleep. It's for a short while, maybe a minute to start with, you go and tuck them in and they know everything is okay and mummy or daddy is nearby. Sleep is so important for both the children and the parents and you are not denying your child your love and attention if you let them cry for a bit at night in order to get sleep patterns back on track. It should only take a couple of days, not weeks and weeks.

 

I will say my ED was a nightmare about sleeping, especially when she was a baby. She'd wake up and start crying and if we wren't there, within a minute, she'd be sick everywhere. My parents said we should just let her cry, but we couldn't. With her I had to sit on a chair not looking at her and slowly move the chair further and further away until I was out of the room. It took a hell of a long time I can tell you.

 

It would be interesting to hear from people whose kids are now grown up who let their them sleep with them night after night and how that got resolved. If it did

 

When my daughter was born she slept in my bed with me.

When she was around 18 months old I got her a bed with a safety rail and had her bed next to my bed. If she woke up I would either get into her bed or she would climb in with me. This made falling back to sleep much easier as it saved having to keep putting her into her own bed again and again etc. She is now 9 years old and in her own room (through her own choice). She goes to bed at 8.30pm every night (again her own choice) and sleeps soundly through the night.

 

My son did have a cot right next to my bed but 9 times out of 10 he would end up in my bed. He is now 4 and has his bed next to mine. He rarely wakes up in the night but if he does-he just gets into my bed and falls straight back to sleep.

He is now starting to feel that he is nearly ready to sleep in the other bedroom. (His own choice).

 

I feel that because my children knew that they could be with me for as long as they felt they needed to-it has helped them to feel safe and secure and make their own decision as to when they sleep alone.

 

I believe that there is no right and wrong with children. Every family is different and indeed every child is different. I just think that we should all think 'out of the box' and stop worrying about conforming with what and how society expects us to be.

 

Do what is best for you and your children and who cares what anyone else thinks!

 

In many cultures families share beds/rooms etc. All other mammals sleep with their offspring to keep them safe and warm at night.

Us humans are a funny bunch really and rather than go with what we feel-we end up going along with what other people do, listen to what other people think is right etc.

 

Just my opinion of course but I certainly won't live my life or raise my children according to what is OK with the 'majority' if I don't feel it's right for us.

 

 

Scrunchee, I loved your post and you have made me decide not to do the whole controlled crying thing, my son slept till 3am last night and rather than have a battle to send him back to room at the distress of all of us, he nestled in with me. We both slept until 7.30am .... bliss! If he knows we're there for cuddles in the dead of the night, it can only mean a more contented child .. surely!