4m x 3m Omlet pen, cube, new auto door still boxed and coop light

[AJuff]

The beekeeping course I was enrolled on in July turned out to be a bee experience day for £80. After speaking to the very nice man at my local beekeeping group I cancelled the day and waited for the information leaflets promised.

 

Nothing has been sent out to me!! My local group does not run courses. I could travel 25 miles to the nearest one but it runs for 10 weeks on a Wednesday evening during term time which is impossible for me to get to. So what now?

 

Is it an elite 'hobby'? I expected newcomers to be welcomed with open arms but it appears not. I'm in a bit of a huff!

[Cinnamon]

Me too, actually.

 

I got in touch with my local group months ago & they were supposed to get back to me in a month with dates for the next courses - I have heard nothing

[Lesley]

I wouldn't say it was an elite hobby - more that most of the Associations are still run by older retired men......it will be a while before the average age of groups comes down and so you have to put up with some 'scatty/forgetful/living on another planet/retired so have lots of hives' problems

 

We struggled to het anyone to come and advise us last week - in the end we appealed to a farmer who really wanted to have a nose around our smallholding - whether he'll ever come back now he's satisfied his desire to look around, we don't know

 

It can be very annoying to have no replies - but it is their busiest time of year .

[Egluntyne]

I've found similar. No concrete plans or dates for courses yet.

 

Just 'pop along to the working mens club in the 3rd Wednesday of the month' type thing.

 

All miles away and takes several bucketsful of courage to just pitch up like that.

[Patricia W]

We went to a free introductory meeting which was great. All apparently very welcoming. But the follow up hasn't been as easy even though we paid our dues for the rest of the year. It feels like a well-established "club" where you'll be a newcomer for several years. Very difficult world to get into - not like the chicken world!

[Daphne]

I beg to disagree - yes it is all old blokes and I'm sorry your collective experiences have not been too good, but I have to say I have been overwhelmed by the welcome and knowledge displayed by our BBKA. I also belong to our local poultry club and the bee boys are 100% more willing to share their knowledge; they really want us to learn how to do things properly. Although I have also been deeply unimpressed by a couple of bee fora which I found to be intimidating and rather unwelcoming.

 

But I know our BBKA has been completely taken aback by the volume of enquiries its received, and is struggling to put more courses on and arrange insurance and physical visits to the apiary which isn't very big. A lot of the guys have their lives to live as well, many of which are related to the land, so they are very busy right now - I have the advantage of living in a rural situation where beekeepers are more prevalent. But please, do be patient - after all courses and the people to present them don't grow on trees, its not like adult education available all over the place. Its a different crowd, a different mentality (not internet savvy for a start), but I feel I'm participating in something with a real link with the past; I feel quite privileged to have got a hive & swarm and realised for myself what fascinating creatures bees are. My fellow bee course people were 60/40 women to men and average age in the 40s. We had just one young woman on it, but I'm sure things will change slowly. I've been asked to go to the next Show in the SE to help them talk to the public about keeping bees from the perspective of newbie and really to put my tuppence back into the hobby I should think about doing more.

 

So, please don't give up = give your local people a gentle nudge. I would guess its cock-up not conspiracy

[Olly]

I would chase up your local group - I've found both what Lesley says, and what Daphne says, to be true. My local group has been very welcoming and they send out newsletters by email, there are several younger (i.e. under 65!)members who are organised and active. The course however is run by a retired gentleman who moves at a, er, slower pace of life, and definitely doesn't do email!

 

When I wanted a swarm I was waiting patiently and hearing nothing, and it was a chance call to another member of the group that led to me getting my bees, because the message had not been passed on that I was waiting for one.

 

Be a bit persistent - there are so many people wanting to start beekeeping that they are bound to be running a course, but you may find it doesn't start till next spring now. That shouldn't stop you going along to your local group meetings, because there will be useful talks on disease, hive management etc and it's a good way to get to know the people who will (you hope) be helping you next year.

 

Yes it is a bit daunting to turn up to a room full of strangers, but it's worth the effort. Even if you can't get on a course, if you go to their regular meetings and express an interest, there's a good chance that you could find a local 'mentor' who would help you with your first hive next year. They are generally really pleased that so many people are taking an interest in beekeeping.

 

I agree about the other forums, there's a tendency to snub newcomers ... but then I wouldn't post on any other poultry forum, because they're not like this one!

 

PS £80 sounds steep for a day ... I paid £35 for six evenings!

[AJuff]

£80 was way to steep but then it was in a very posh village!!!!! OH and I decided that it was almost the cost of a hive which is why I cancelled.

 

I found a course run by Tees Bees which is the local beekeepers near my sister on Teeside. Their website was very helpful and easy to find out what is on . . not like my local one. I have decided to stuff the local group and do a course with Tees Bees next year which is on a weekend and prepares you for getting bees.

 

I have heard today that up near Alnwick the newbie group of beekeepers gets given a hive with a small colony of bees which is kept at a farm. Every week for ten weeks you go up to open the hive under the supervision of the leaders. Aparently after that time you pay your money and take home your bees. Maybe worth a phone call. Nothing to loose.

[Olly]

That sounds like a good wheeze! Apparently every year there are people who do the course and buy equipment before they have seen inside a hive, and then find they just can't cope with lots of bees buzzing around them.

 

That way you'd have lots of support over the first weeks when you're trying to learn everything - I've done three hive inspections so far, and the first two I was so nervous that I couldn't work out what I was seeing. I still haven't spotted the queen!

[chickenanne]

Welll... I've found my local BKA to be brilliant!

The classes that mine does run out-of-season as they are theory based, so thats Jan-Mar: I don't think that dates/times/venues would've been set yet, so I guess people enquiring now would've been told that they'll get back to them when dates are set.

It's worth going to the monthly meetings: some are kept as informal as possible so as not to put newcomers off - so turning up on a given evening once a month is scary when you're walking into a room of strangers but everyone's had to do that at some point and everyone knows it's intimidating, so at least some of the people will go out their way to be as freindly as possible.

I think bees have had so much publicity over the last year or so that lots of people will be looking for beginners classes, I'm sure some BKA's will be pretty overwhelmed, adn equally, sure that some businesses will set up doing fairly rubbish courses to meet the demand.

[MedusA]

I'm with Daphne on this one.

 

I just turned up to the "spring cleaning" session at my local beekeeping association apiary back in April and everybody was so enthusiatic and welcoming, it encouraged me to go to the first evening meeting. Within a couple of weeks I knew I definitely wanted to keep bees and joined the association. I have learned so much just by going along to the weekly meetings and backing it up with books. There is nothing like hands-on practical experience to guide your decision. The exams can come later. In fact, according to our apiary manager, the BBKA beginners exam isn't usually taken until you've owned a hive for a couple of years.

 

I know it's "horses for courses" and some people would prefer having a bit of theoretical knowledge in advance (usually my choice too) but, in this case, to just go along would be my advice. It's getting a bit late in the season to start with your own hive, but to get a taster it would be fine. (Just realised that I've more or less repeated what Olly said....great minds etc).

 

Maybe I've just been lucky in having a brilliant local association.

[Staffordmum]

I wouldn't say it was an elite hobby - more that most of the Associations are still run by older retired men

 

I agree with Lesley, it was the same when I considered joining the local W.I.

 

Having moved to the countryside and attended a floral arranging course to include lunch, I thought this was the way to become "accepted".

 

Turns out all they were interested in was whether I was a car driver, just so I could be unpaid taxi to the more senior members ...

 

I went back to horse riding and bought chickens instead!

 

Rgds,

 

Pat & Steve

[pdcambs]

A poorly run anything is regrettable, and while those with the time to spare to help run the charities that are local beekeeping associations are often retired, most associations that I've come into contact do a great job.

 

I think you have to bare in mind that these associations are not all large, well funded affairs. None receive any external funding and subscription fees include payments to the national beekeepers association (if affiliated) and both public liability and hive disease insurance; although don't expect to get back anywhere near what you paid for a plastic iglu hive if you have to destroy it under government regulations.

 

It is true that a few associations are a bit inward thinking, and it is largely a matter of luck (or the lack of any) if that is what you encounter, but the large influx of new beekeepers over the last five years means that with a little work and organization you can help turn that around.

 

 

I think the most important thing to do if you are thinking of buying your first beehive, is to go get some hands on experience of looking into a few hives with a competent beekeeper before you part with one brass penny. It's not for everyone!

 

 

 

Peter

Cambridge UK

[Guest]

I think you have to bare in mind that these associations are not all large, well funded affairs. None receive any external funding and subscription fees include payments to the national beekeepers association (if affiliated) and both public liability and hive disease insurance; although don't expect to get back anywhere near what you paid for a plastic iglu hive if you have to destroy it under government regulations.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Peter

 

I am interested in your plastic comments about toxicity(in previous post) and infection transfers etc as plastic is still cleaned and used a lot in medical devices for years in hospitals etc and re used so you really need to clarify what you are driving at here.

 

Have you ever thought of the other way perhaps the wood ones have encouraged the breeding of these pathogens? Perhaps if beekepers had looked at other materials it may have helped stop the decline if pathogens thrive in wood. Products and materials can be improved ?

 

Do you not think to encourage new members is a good thing for Bee welfare espcially if it is an opportunity for the Bee keepers to ensure that this is done properly rather than lose it all together. I am sure a lot of the potential new Bee members would be more than happy to support their local groups and keep them running for the future, they are not trying to destroy them

 

As they say use it or lose it

 

indie

[Willow]

How about we pool info on good courses by county, I've started a post on courses in Berkshire

 

Sarah although the BCA is Berkshire it's not far from Henley.

[pdcambs]

Hi Peter

 

I am interested in your plastic comments about toxicity(in previous post) and infection transfers etc as plastic is still cleaned and used a lot in medical devices for years in hospitals etc and re used so you really need to clarify what you are driving at here.

 

Have you ever thought of the other way perhaps the wood ones have encouraged the breeding of these pathogens? Perhaps if beekepers had looked at other materials it may have helped stop the decline if pathogens thrive in wood. Products and materials can be improved ?

 

Do you not think to encourage new members is a good thing for Bee welfare espcially if it is an opportunity for the Bee keepers to ensure that this is done properly rather than lose it all together. I am sure a lot of the potential new Bee members would be more than happy to support their local groups and keep them running for the future, they are not trying to destroy them

 

As they say use it or lose it

 

indie

 

Hi Indie

 

 

While, out-gassing of toxins from plastics may not provide problems to humans most of the time (although microwave food in plastic containers at your peril, and likewise don’t wrap cheese in Clingfilm) bees are not directly comparable to humans, just as pesticides harm insects but not humans, allegedly. So, during a time when bees are under attack from so many other man made environmental toxins does it make good sense (on a bee welfare level) to put colonies into plastic hives?

 

The foul brood pathogens exist in honey, not within the wood of hives. While they do not harm humans when we eat honey, it should be publicized that the biggest source of foul brood outbreaks are probably associated with commercial honey processors and landfill sites where our bees come into contact with foreign honey which contains the spores. Omlet has said that a dishwasher can help sterilize their hives, but once your beehaus is coated in propolis and wax I cant see many dishwasher owners letting them anywhere near their appliance.

 

Of course, promoting beekeeping is part of every beekeeping association's constitution and I'm not against new people taking up beekeeping, far from it; in fact this year and last year I have GIVEN bees to over ten new beekeepers free of charge, mentoring half myself and even giving two of them the hives to keep them in (again without charge) That is not the issue, what is of concern though, is that many associations are already stretched to breaking point with the numbers of new beekeepers attending beginners courses over the last five years as beekeeping popularity has increased. One large local association near me has capped the numbers they take over recent years and courses fill up months in advance of their start dates. This is not because they are elitist as has been hinted at by some here, rather it is an issue of class sizes in available facilities and the availability of experienced individuals to teach. You simply cannot throw 150 beginners and one beekeeper at half a dozen hives in a teaching apiary and expect anyone to enjoy the experience, learn much from it, or agree to repeat it the following time a class is to be taught.

 

Beekeeping is not as simple as getting a hive delivered and then buying bees. As has been mentioned before by others it is advisable to get some hands on experience to see if you enjoy it, and get stung a few times to check your reaction to bee venom, before even considering which hive to buy or make. My worry is Eglu owners will be lulled into the belief all they need do is order a hive and some bees and they will become beekeepers, as has already been seen there are members here who are loosing colonies of bees already. Other issues are that most commercially available bees are put together using foreign queens. Queen breading and the importing of non indigenous strains of Apis Mellifera (the honey bee) have arguably caused many of the problems bees and beekeepers face today. Moving bees about (particularly importing them) also spreads parasites and diseases, so many beekeepers are going to be wary or whole rafts of enthusiastic beginners being lead by a new manufacturer of plastic hives that promotes the purchase of imported stocks (if that is what they, in practice, do) The latter issue is going to be a biggie for many beekeepers, we don’t much mind what hive type you chose to put your bees into, but we want to be sure your drones that visit out hives are at least healthy and preferably as native as possible. Would you be happy if chickens were able to move from coop to coop between different owners and someone suddenly came up with a new notion that meant dozens of people near your coop who knew nothing if avian parasites and diseases were going to start keeping chickens without any training. I’ve got chickens and bees, I had bees first after going on a beginners course and the idea that Eglu owners will go and buy beehaus’s simply because they have the impression Eglu’s are “good and easy” to keep and maintain so a beehaus has to be as well, causes some concern!

 

 

Best regards

 

 

Peter

[Christian]

....the idea that Eglu owners will go and buy beehaus’s simply because they have the impression Eglu’s are “good and easy” to keep and maintain so a beehaus has to be as well, causes some concern!

 

 

Best regards

 

 

Peter

 

Whilst I understand your concern Peter, I think it is fair to say that you should give us credit where due.

 

Chickens are relatively easy to keep, bees can kill you.

 

I think most would think carefully about keeping bees, whether it be in a traditional wooden hive or beehaus.

[Willow]

Hi Peter,

You clearly have a lot of great experience to share so I hope you stick around as I've learn a great deal already from your posts.

Everyone I've got to know on this forum cares greatly for their chickens and doesn't give up when it gets difficult so I would be surprised if they treated beekeeping as a fad.

 

Unfortunately we have faced a lot of criticism/sneering from some traditionalist poultry keepers over the eglu especially the somewhat unjust 'more money than sense' type of comments so we may be a little sensitive to it.

 

Despite the doubters the eglu has proved to be a superb product that is cost effective over time and holds its value well. It remains to be seen if the beehaus will be as well.

 

I do want the questions about foul brood and cleaning plastic asked as I want to know the answer. At this point I don't know if I will start keeping bees or what type of hive I will use if I do. I only spent a few months thinking about and researching chickens whereas I've been thinking about bees for a couple of years now. I realise there is a difference and I won't automatically go for a beehaus just because I love the eglus.

[Guest]

I have to say I don't like diswashing plastic as it becomes brittle so I wouldn't have believed the idea of dishwashing parts of the Beehaus. Mind you the stuff thats on it wouldn't put me off - I dishwash things you wouldn't want to know about, most people wouldn't do it - I shan't mention more.

 

Peter - keep the advice coming its welcomed here and you surely have a lot of it - you know about bees and chemicals - anything sciency leaves me for dead!

[Peaches]

AJDuff sorry you had a poor experience. I see you mention Teeside, well I'm not so far from you in Richmond (okay a bit of a way) but the beginners course they ran this June was fab. I was over 2 days in Foxglove Covert (in the Garrison) and I learned a lot. I was well run, they had enough kit (protective gear etc) for everyone and we got hands-on with hives - which was great for when we got our own bees.

 

Just in case you are thinking of having another go at a course I could give you details.

 

[Peaches]

AJuff - just to add, the course was run over a weekend. 10 am to 5 pm each day.

[Tara.F]

Our local beekeepers club are very welcoming

They don't have a date for their course yet....sometime towards the end of October was as near as they could be.

They did, however invite me to visit with them every Saturday afternoon till then. They are lending me a suit and going to let me 'help' maintain their hives so I can 'get a feel for it' learning as I go. Then we all go inside for buns and coffee and a chat.

 

Come October, I can join the club for forty quid annual subscription. The course is free to members I get four magazines a year, full public liability insurance for up to four hives of my own on my allotment and the right to a share when the club buy things in bulk.

The club is entirely voluntary....no-one is paid.

 

I looked at several clubs before deciding on this one....and there was a great deal of variation! This club is just up the road but I had no idea they were there until I found them on google!

 

Please keep looking Ajuff!

I just bet there are better clubs near you that you just haven't found yet!

[missuscluck]

We never actually went on a course. We just went to the once monthly meets. During the summer months our BBKA meets are held around the hives where they do talks and you can ask as many daft questions as you like. I guess a course would be a quicker route.

[pdcambs]

We never actually went on a course. We just went to the once monthly meets. During the summer months our BBKA meets are held around the hives where they do talks and you can ask as many daft questions as you like. I guess a course would be a quicker route.

 

A course is also likely to cover things that don't get mentioned at monthly apiary meetings. Often apiary meetings will cover those things that are commonly done at that particular point of the beekeeping season. A good course should provide you with notes on all the things you are likely to need to reference throughout the season.

 

However, an apiary meeting can teach you other things that you won't get off just a classroom lesson, like do you feel comfortable surrounded by flying bees.

 

Lots of courses are held during the winter, when beekeepers have more time to devote to things other than practical hive care. Ideally beginners should try to get onto a course after an introduction to opening up a hive at an apiary meeting, then follow up the course with practical spring sessions at the association apiary before they get their bees in late spring early summer.

 

Of course, you don't have to do it that way, but it would be a shame to lay out lots of money only to discover either you don't enjoy beekeeping or your bees suffer due to your own ignorance (not that I'm saying anyone here is ignorant)

[Paul Peacock]

People needing courses

 

If anyone lives in reach of Manchester you can get involved in the scheme sponsored by the COOP where we offer theory and practical hands on courses.

 

If you live in Manchester it's free, outside there might be a charge of something like ten quid for two night's theory training and two days hands on in the hives. We will be doing practical things until mid September and theory courses all winter.

 

Have a look at our website: www.beetowns.com

 

By the way, we have gained another set of funding to repeat the program in London next year, and if anyone wants to help sponsor a million bees, please look at the websire.

 

An apology: the website isn't perfect by any means, so please be gentle with us.

 

We train on the national hives, but have a beehaus too.

 

You can also book on out Omlet Courses.