Solitary chicken - need advice

[PixieDust]

For those who have not heard Pob was pts this morning.

[mollyripkim]

Really sorry to hear that, but you did your best for her and sometimes it is just not meant to be. Not a nice start but I hope it doesn't put you off. xx

[mullethunter]

I'm sorry to hear that PixieDust after all your efforts. I - too - hope such a difficult start doesn't put you off

[PixieDust]

When I presented her, the vet immediately thought she had Mareks disease. Her leg was twisted out and her neck twisted. Upon reading up about it it all makes perfect sense. 90-100% vaccinated birds do not die of it. I guess she was one of the 10%. Nothing we could have done. Just play the waiting game with Lily, Pixie and Winter, (Winny).

[Luvachicken]

RIP little Pob xxx

[Beantree]

I'm feeling really bad about it PixieDust and obviously you are far far worse. My deepest sympathies go out to you. Sure Pob will be playing with so many others now. It was a tough decision and you had the courage to make it. An incredibly difficult start to chicken keeping, despite your very careful planning, as I'm sure anyone would agree. Concentrate on the others now, they need you.

 

Didn't know she was immunised against Mareks as well. I know some breeders do. Faverolles seem particularly vulnerable. That statistic of a 90% survival rate is worrying. Worth asking the breeder (if you are still talking) to confirm that they have been vaccinated for that. That way you know the others are OK.

[gavclojak]

Sleep tight little one

[redsunset]

So sorry to read this, it's never easy. one minute you think what hardy little things they are and the next minute they can be so fragile.

[PixieDust]

Thank you for all your good wishes.

 

Beantree, I emailed the seller - he wasn't the breeder, this morning explaining she was being pts and explained about the lime green dropping and everything. No reply.

 

The last time I emailed him he seemed quite aggressive basically saying that people on the internet knew precious little about poultry health and that his birds and his customers birds were perfect. He also said he didn't know why my flock had "responded in such a way", which I felt was laying the onus at my door.

 

If it is true my girl had Mareks, (I believe from several sources of reading, lime green liquid droppings are a sign), then his land has Mareks and all birds will carry it even if they don't actually get sick or die from it. I would have thought he would be interested to know?

 

I have a 50p bet with myself that he doesn't reply. I hope I am proved wrong.

[PixieDust]

Just for info:

 

http://www.mypetchicken.com/backyard-chickens/chicken-help/My-hen-was-vaccinated-for-Mareks-disease-as-a-H247.aspx

[Beantree]

You could be right about his land PixieDust. Our last place seemed to be harbouring 'something' and I always wondered if at some time years before it had been sprayed with DDT? During the war there were 200 chickens on it I was told.

 

What hasn't been explained is exactly what the seller's involvement is in the breeding process. Are the chicks bought in as 'day olds' and reared and immunised by him or are they much older and have come in after immunisation is complete?

 

The sort of droppings in your photo I have seen here, but the green bits were presumed grass. But both times they were successfully treated for digestive impactions, which was a 4 week long process. In Pob's case the obstruction may well have been due to the formation of tumours or muscle contractions due to a neurological problem. The twisted leg is a classic symptom of Mareks.

 

I interpreted the vet's comment as 90% of chickens survive the immunisation, which is the deliberate infection with a weak strain of Mareks. Something else to flare up under stress perhaps? This chicken keeping is very complicated indeed!

[PixieDust]

There was another page I found Beantree. Bloomin' phone crashed so lost the link. Will keep searching for it.

 

Obviously if she had Mareks we have it here now which means I have to have vaccinated birds or risk mass losses? I.e. If I bought 4 more after I lose these current birds, all 4 new ones may die from it?

 

He apparently got them at 16 weeks old. To be honest I was very less than impressed when I got there. The place was very muddy due to the rain but really stank. I just assumed it was because of keeping so any birds. Rats were running everywhere and he said it was just a symptom of keeping chickens. I had no real choice as he had about 14+ birds in a tiny wire cage. There was the one Sussex, one Columbine, 2 Bluebell's and 2 Copper Black Marans. There was also 3 Speckledys, 3 Black's and about 4 or 5 Columbian Blacktail types.

 

I didn't have anything to gauge by and had read some brilliant reviews so thought it was ok but as he was an older man, maybe just a bit old school. I now realise I should have been able to see where they live and have a wider choice. I do feel quite a fool but I knew no better.

 

She hadn't been eating grass Beantree. I will try to find the page linking the dropping colour to Mareks.

 

I did photograph her before she went which shows her leg but don't want to upset anyone with it. Should I post it?

[The Dogmother]

I have had Marek's in my flock in the past - one case of the fast-burn type, and one case of the slower version as you had. Over all the years, that doesn't amount to a high percentage, and believe me the slow burn can be hard even for a vet to diagnose in the early stages.

 

I wouldn't worry about he future health of your flock too much - mine are all unvaccinated pure breeds, and in good health. They are unlikely to succumb to the background virus unless their immune system is compromised in some way (stress, or heavy moult for instance).

[Beantree]

No need to post the photo PixieDust. There are plenty of references showing the classic Mareks pose, which is one leg stretched forward and one stretched back, on the internet. Could be confusing to some as well because, in my experience, when any chicken dies it has one leg forward of the other. The difference is they are in a relaxed position.

 

My knowledge of the Mareks vaccination and subsequent contagion is nil. So I don't know what will happen in that respect with introducing birds not immunised. I do know they could theoretically catch ILT, IB and now Myco, but that actually doesn't seem to happen. We got caught the other way round, with immunised birds brought in. They were stressed and shed the viruses affecting all our existing flock. If you introduced new birds they would get stressed but have no viruses and if the existing flock is established and happy they won't get stressed and shed the viruses they are carrying. In practice that seems to be the way it works. I can't ever remember hearing of flocks affected that way round.

 

By the sounds of it the birds could have been getting stressed and ill while they were at the dealers place. You just bore the brunt of his bad husbandry sadly. The problem is simply that to make a profit you have to cut corners. Always best to buy birds from a hobby keeper I suppose, if you can find one. In our case we sold birds at a loss being ones surplus in our own flock breeding program. They all lived long happy lives because we vetted the buyers as well, checking their premises by delivering them after they had been chosen (so the buyer inspected our premises as well) and ringed.

 

Green in poo can be all sorts of things. Grass or partially undigested coloured foodstuffs obviously. An internal infection. Being on antibiotics. Major stress. The latter we only discovered last year when a cock escaped his enclosure (our fault) and attacked another. The resulting injuries, mainly chest from hitting the cage, caused an immediate change in the colour of his poo to bright green. Certainly not an infection that fast and he was fine in a few days but rather subdued and remains so. I think he feels he lost the fight, not realising it was the wire causing his injuries and not the other cock who was unscathed.

 

We've been 'bullied' somewhat into taking birds; 'rescues' we call them. Seeing how badly they were being treated made us take them out of there. We recently bought one from a breeder with no back or tail feathers, lice and chronic scaly leg mite. How do you turn your back on a bird in that condition? She is now lovely and feathered up ready for the worst of Winter. Did you see the school on Countryfile with chickens? The first bird shown closeup had bad scaly leg mite as well!

 

I digress. Be interesting to see those reference pages please. My knowledge in this area is apparently badly lacking.

[sparkysmum]

Hello PixieDust, I am just catching up with this. I am so sorry that you have lost your little hen, you did all that you could for her. Just wanted to add a couple of things about mareks disease. Sadly we lost 2 sablepoots to this awful disease some years ago. Both had been to a show ( therefore stressed and vulnerable to picking up viruses or anything else)). However none of my other birds were affected despite this being contagious and my ladies are therefore resistant. In fact they will all be 6 yrs old next spring.

 

Hopefully there will be parallels for you. IF your chick had mareks disease then yes you must keep a careful watch over the others but if they are showing no signs of the disease AND they have been vaccinated then hopefully they will be resistant and like my ladies they will live to a ripe old age.

 

Please dont agonise over what the breeder/seller did or didnt do, said or didn't say. If you are worried about the condition his birds are kept in then please contact the NSPCA, he simply shouldnt be allowed to trade if his birds are kept in dreadful conditions and no one should have to feel that they have to buy from such sellers as a form of "rescue". They should be closed down.

 

You have had a dreadful experience but try to put it behind you. Love Ax

[WitchHazel]

Sorry to hear about Pob.

[Chickabee]

How sad, sorry to hear this. I had a cream legbar who died of mareks. I keep immunized and non together. I sanitized the coop and run. None of my others got it thankfully.

 

In hindsight I shouldn't have bought her. The lady I got her from kept chickens in her garden. It was far from big and there wasn't much garden to be seen, just loads of overcrowded hen houses. The female Legbars were in a shed. I somehow thought that I couldn't walk away without buying any. Lesson learnt the hard way

[The Dogmother]

Put it down to experience.... have the confidence to walk away if you're not happy with the conditions at the supplier, inspect the birds, and never buy because you feel sorry for them.

[PixieDust]

Very true Dogmother. Turns out OH was not impressed either but didn't want to interfere. This was a garden. Not sure how large as we didn't go around it.

 

Anyhow, I need to draw a line under this.

 

The other 3 are quite subdued. They did sit on the coop in the sun today for the first time. I now realise just how light she was. The other 3 are quite hefty now. Picking them all up. They actually seem rather good tempered birds at this point. We shall see.

[The Dogmother]

Don't worry - you'll not be the first, nor the last to 'buy on emotion'.

 

Technically, a supplier/breeder with a disease such as IB/Myco/Marek's should eradicate their flock, disinfect and start again on new ground; this rarely, if ever happens. It is hard to prove whether the bird caught the disease at the breeder, or on the buyer's property.

[Chickabee]

In memory of pob my new Marans is called Pobble

[mullethunter]

Chickabee that's lovely (it's not the Pobble who has no toes though is it?!)

[Chickabee]

I'd never read that before, just looked it up on google. I just made the name up, I'm not going to get rid of her toes

[mullethunter]

Look for the Quangle wangle - one of my favourite poems that reminds me of my childhood

[PixieDust]

In memory of pob my new Marans is called Pobble

 

That is so cute. Thank you its made my day.

 

The Sussex or Bluebell laid our first egg this afternoon.

 

One door shuts another opens.