Storms and chickens

[mullethunter]

Hi all. Sorry to anyone eating breakfast but my 5 week old Wyandotte bantam has been doing poos with lots of extra liquid (not like diarrhoea but normal-ish poo surrounded by lots of watery liquid) every so often for the last few days, then this morning has done a couple with bright red blood, then when I was there one massive load of really loose dark coloured stuff which to be honest looked like almost entirely blood.

Is this coccidiosis? They’ve been on medicated chick crumb since they hatched and have been spending a few hours outside on the lawn most days for the last couple of weeks.

If it is coccidiosis, is the right thing to do to get some coxoid (I see unlicensed for poultry now but available for pigeons) and treat with that?

Thanks.

[Daphne]

That sounds like cocci. It's nasty. Is the bird(s) hunched and listless and not eating as that is normally what happens. There are 9 strains of cocci so it's hard to treat but you may be fortunate and have a mild version. I have used coxoid in the past, to no avail but it might be worth a go especially as it's Sunday and you don't need a prescription. Do a Google and find out whatever is the most recommended thing to use for cocci now and get hold of some asap. In the meantime you need to be scrupulous with hygiene. Wash and dry everything, I used Virkon S as its anti bacterial and my vet used it in the surgery between animals but again there may be something more current. You need to guard against damp and as the disease is spread by spores on the ground you need to be meticulous about disinfecting boots and not tramping from the growers elsewhere. For that reason deal with them last in your rotation of looking after your birds. Oh, and you need to read about using medicated crumb and medicines, I have a feeling you aren't meant to use both at the same time but it's so long ago I had an outbreak I can't remember. Best of luck. Sorry this is a bit rushed!

 

 

[mullethunter]

Thanks for the reply Daphne. They’re still living in the bathroom and I have some virkon so easy to clean everything and avoid damp. I think it’s a bit late for all that though. He was totally normal behaviour wise yesterday and first thing this morning but is now looking a bit sorry for himself and pale - not surprising given how much blood I think he’s already lost. 

Thanks for the heads up re medicated food and coxoid - I’ll check that. 

He’s gone downhill so quickly this morning I have a bad feeling about this. Should I try to separate the two pekins from him or is it too late for that?

[The Dogmother]

I would separate anyway and keep him warm

TBH, cocci is nasty and Coxoid is (by necessity) a pretty harsh medicine. Give him some NutriDrops and try to get some liquid down him if you can. You can try Coxoid, but he really needs a vet 

Did you use medicated crumb?

I always hatch under broodies, so there's less chance of it, but then I also feed medicated crumb. Viratec P is my go-to for sanitising anything, I think there's also a ready to use spray.

[Daphne]

Yes, do as DM says for now, its worth a shot.   Your instincts are right, I didn't want to be the voice of doom but in my experience a bird which has had cocci never thrives, even if it survives. Medicated crumb can help in prevention, but its far from a failsafe.

[mullethunter]

Have separated and he’s still indoors so won’t get cold. He seemed very subdued earlier on today but has now rallied a little - I guess it can be up and down. I’ll give him some nutri-drops now, and take him to the vet on Tuesday if he’s still with us and still poorly.

Yes I used medicated crumb.

I wanted to hatch under a broody but unfortunately she proved unreliable - I’m hoping that the pekin hen from this hatch might do that for me next year. 

What could a vet do / give that would be different to coxoid?

[The Dogmother]

It's not good news I'm afraid, but I am guessing that you know that; he may not last until Tuesday as the ulceration of the gut increases as the cocci progresses. It's your decision, but I would despatch him now - he is unlikely to thrive even after medication. 

Make sure that he others outside have clean dry runs - a good sprinkling of ground sanitising powder, then a thick layer of aubiose and a cover to prevent rain getting in the run. I am guessing that you have done this already though. Cocci is one of those nasty things that's always there in the background, but if a bird's immune system is a little below par, then it can kill quickly. It's nothing that you have done, but try to keep the others dry, away form mud and under cover - this incessant rain isn't helping at all.

I'm afraid that keeping livestock is always full of ups and downs

Thinking of you.

[mullethunter]

Thanks DM. It may or may not surprise you to hear I’m not going to take your advice to dispatch just yet. Today he’s only done one poo that had blood in and that was only a small bit. The rest have all been very loose but not bloody. A lot of the time he is doing the ‘poorly chicken’ stance, but he’s also had a good go at escaping from the crate Andy is eating and drinking (drinking a lot which I guess is to be expected). If he stops eating, drinking and becomes inactive I will cull - but I’m not going to just yet.

The grown up (and now 16 week old Cammie the campine) girls outdoors have their covered run filled with hardwood chip which is mostly dry and I poo pick most days sprinkle with nettex gsp roughly once a fortnight. They never have any mud luckily.

The run that the poorly Wyandotte and two pekin chicks will be going into next week has been empty since Cammie and the boys vacated it about 6 weeks ago I suppose. I left it open to the elements to get some rain in the ground but covered it completely at the end of last week to get it dry and will take a load of gsp through it before the newbies move in.

Thankyou for your kind thoughts - when I last said to a farming friend ‘oh they’re 5 weeks old and seem fine so hopefully will all be ok - he said ‘you never know, you often come down of a morning and think - oh, why are you dead?’!

If he does recover and I don’t cull, when would it be safe to put him back with the others?

[The Dogmother]

No, not surprised; I would do the same if my bird was much improved. Fingers crossed that he makes it

28 minutes ago, mullethunter said:

Thankyou for your kind thoughts - when I last said to a farming friend ‘oh they’re 5 weeks old and seem fine so hopefully will all be ok - he said ‘you never know, you often come down of a morning and think - oh, why are you dead?’!

Yes, we always used to say "when you have livestock, you'll always have deadstock" 

If he recovers, then I don't see any reason why you shouldn't put him back in - they will have been exposed to him before his condition became obvious. Who knows, perhaps a sudden change in temperature or a move of environment stressed him and affected his immune system.

 

[Natspringy]

Hope he makes it. Keeping everything crossed for you x

[Luvachicken]

Poor wee thing.

I really hope he gets better soon.

[mullethunter]

The coxoid has arrived so I have just put the first dose in their water. I know it’s a pretty nasty drug so I was in two minds, but as all three are likely to have been exposed to the same pathogens they’re all getting it even though the pekins seem fine. I’ll be absolutely gutted if that turns out to be a bad decision. I have some lifeguard tonic that I can give them after this is done. 

Should I switch to unmedicated crumb while they’re having the coxoid?

Wyandotte seems no better or no worse - no more blood but poo still very wet and loose and still a bit hunched most of the time.

[Daphne]

Have a quick read up about coxoid and medicated crumb, I just can't remember.  Don't fret about giving the coxoid, in my view you have to either give coxoid, take to the vet, or cull, you don't have the option of doing nothing.  I wish you luck.

[mullethunter]

Hmm. I’ve found a few posts that suggest that if you feed medicated crumb alongside coxoid they’ll cancel each other out. Nothing definitive though. I’ve got growers though so I’ll pound some of them up and use them as crumb.

[mullethunter]

My growers say they can have them from 5 weeks anyway and the cheeps are nearly 6 weeks now.

[Natspringy]

How's he doing? Hope he's okay x

[The Dogmother]

Yep, Coxoid is nasty stuff - I would give Lief-Guard at a higher concentration right the way through the treatment, then follow up afterwards with Herbal Gut Conditioner to help repopulate their gut flora. I have a feeling that you shouldn't combine  the treatment and medicated crumb.

Poor wee things

[Luvachicken]

Let's hope the medicine works some magic and he starts to feel better soon.

[mullethunter]

He seems to be doing pretty well. He’s desperate to get out of his dog crate and I think he’s got a bit more colour in his comb. He’s definitely lost weight but he is eating (nearly took my fingers off for some rich tea crumbs!) so hopefully he’ll get back in track.

Have bashed up growers pellets which they seem to be getting to grips with so they’re not having medicated feed alongside the coxoid.

How would you give them life-guard alongside the coxoid DM because the coxoid is in their water? (Thankyou for your continued help!)

Edited August 29, 2018 by mullethunter

[The Dogmother]

22 hours ago, mullethunter said:

How would you give them life-guard alongside the coxoid DM because the coxoid is in their water? (Thankyou for your continued help!)

Yes I would - I'd give that in a slightly stronger concentration and/or make up a wet mash with it. That or Vit Boost are both good tonics

[Beantree]

We've only ever had one case. She was a three week old Cream Legbar pooing blood and hunched up. Phoned the vet and explained and he said she was too far gone to help. In desperation I tried syringing probiotic yoghurt and filled her crop with it. Three days later and she was perfectly normal! The condition reappeared at 5 ½ weeks and the treatment repeated, again with complete success. She lived to quite an age and even survived a hunting dog attack in the Dordogne (they ripped through the enclosure mesh).

[mullethunter]

Thanks DM never thought of making mash out of it. I’ll do that this evening. 

If I was right (following Dr Google) about the incredibly bloody poo being day 4 (or could have been day 5) of the lifecycle, then all the viable oocysts should have been out by yesterday, so they’re all back in together and so have been able to go outside this afternoon.

wyandottes poo is less wet than it was so I think we’re getting there. Apart from that he seems fine. 

Thanks Beantree that’s good to know.

[The Dogmother]

Aaaand breathe! 

Try to keep their stress level as low as possible for a couple of weeks , hard I know when they are coming into a moult. Pop some herbal gut conditioner into their water to soothe and help repopulate the gut flora.

 

[mullethunter]

Thanks DM and thanks for all your advice. You wise ones on this forum are invaluable.

[Natspringy]

Wonderful to hear he's doing okay!  Hope he continues to improve x