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[Old Speckled Hen]

Blimey, I'm glad mine has grown up and left home now

My daughter and I had a common enemy, in her alcoholic father, from an early age so it was very tempting to over indulge her to compensate.

I tried very hard to set boundaries and say no but it was made much easier as we were so close.

I remember one occasion she went out for a Christmas drink with the sailing club she worked for and got roaring drunk. I left her throwing up in the downstairs loo and made her go to work the next morning ....Horrid mum

She hardly drinks now, behaved herself wonderfully at university and made me cry by posting this on facebook yesterday

 

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=name&id=609871301

 

My DH's oldest Grandson is looked after by varying people ( both sets of parents and grandparents are divorced so there is a bewildering array of grand parents) and it is amazing to see how he, even at the tender age of five, manipulates each of them. He knows what he can get away with depending on who he is with

[chickenanne]

A freind of mine peirced her own ear (the top bit) a few times when we'd've been 14 or so: it wasn't so unusual then, either (about -gasp - 20 years ago - how did that happen??!).

I also remember someone coming home from a pernod and blackcurrant fueled work night out (Saturday job in local chintzy cafe) and the inevitable damage to parents very new very pale carpet.... blackcurrant really does stain... they are speaking to me again now, and they too made me go to work the next day. I was about 15 at the time. So, ooh, 19 years ago. My parents were pretty strict, actually, very strict and not at all indulgent: but it doesn't stop teens from occasional, ahem "errors of judgement".

Occasional blips like that are, not exactly inevitable, but don't mean too much. Occasional blips though, not normal behaviour.

[Happy chickens!]

You must be very frustrated with the company you keep Cinnammon! Stick to your guns though - you know you have a solid parenting base to bat from, but I know how you feel. I have friends who think it ok to let their children drink until they're sick as 'they'll learn'.

 

We adults are older, not necessarily wiser, but more experienced and we should set boundaries and teach our children, preferably by example too! So many families seem to think it's ok to let the tv bring up the children for instance.

 

Anyway could rant for hours on this one, so best shut up now!

[Egluntyne]

She hardly drinks now, behaved herself wonderfully at university and made me cry by posting this on facebook yesterday

 

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=name&id=609871301

 

 

 

Can't see it, OSH even when I sign in.

[chickencam]

I agree children and teenagers need boundaries and they make them feel more secure in the long term.

[Old Speckled Hen]

She hardly drinks now, behaved herself wonderfully at university and made me cry by posting this on facebook yesterday

 

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=name&id=609871301

 

 

 

Can't see it, OSH even when I sign in.

 

Silly me,

I suppose it's on my ac only

 

This is what she put

 

Cat Gerrard a few hours early (coz am going to bed soon!) but just so you know:

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

you are honestly the best mum in the world, i love you so much. and everyone on facebook (nay, in the world!) should know it.

thankyou for Always being there for me - i know i can be abysmal. i'm also always here for you.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx...

[The Dogmother]

Golly, that's lovely, made my eyes prickle too.

 

Hippo Birdies OSH

[Egluntyne]

How lovely. Makes it all worth while. Belated Happy Birthday.

 

Talking of Facebook, I am amazed at the number on under 13's of my acquaintance who are members of Facebook. Since I joined I have been prodded, poked and befriended by umpteen nieces, nephews and young pals who are under 13. What the heck are their parents thinking? Some of them have completely open accounts.....with details of schools attended, birthdays, photos. I've mentioned it to a couple of the adults and they are quite happy for their children to be members ( thus condoning rule breaking *shrugs*) and hadn't a clue about the safety aspects. Dear me.

 

Being computer and internet savvy should be a priority for any parent whose child is online regularly.

[Chook n Boo Mum]

OSH, that's lovely....you've got a good girl there

 

I've not got a FB account and my children are banned too, also from Bebo and all the others..............much to their disgust it has to be said They are both under 13 so can't have one anyway, but that doesn't stop many little darlings does it?!

 

Sha x

[laurmurf]

Being computer and internet savvy should be a priority for any parent whose child is online regularly.

 

here here!

When I required my lads to give me access to their facebook accounts so that i could monitor what they and their friends were up to I did not like what i saw and read.... result is they are banned from facebook now. I only allow them occasional access with me standing over them for specific reasons (although they have only come up with a good enough reason once!).

 

I DO believe in censorship and control of young 'uns - it's my responsibility. After all, when they get to work their internet access will be monitored and controlled (quite rightly in my view) so they should get used to the idea that what they do online isn't private.

 

I was one of those kids who had waaaaaaay to much freedom when I was younger - and it didn't welcome it then and still don't now (there but for the grace of god on too many occasions). Firm boundaries were set but they weren't easy for me, as I didn't have any role models to follow, so I did quite a few 'parenting skills' classes that gave me a 'toolkit' and confidence to follow through. Highly recommended.

[The Dogmother]

I agree Egluntyne, all Rosie's friends seem to be on Face Book and they are all 11 or under, so not above the FB age limit. What amazes me though is that their parents complain that they can't get them to do their homework, or never speak to their offspring because they're 'always on Face Book'

 

Rosie doesn't have an account, nor an email, if she wants to talk to her friends, she calls them up. We have discussed internet safety and I have had her read various articles in the paper where children have been groomed via FB and then met, or were abducted by that person. She reluctantly agreed that it was unwise to have an account, I expect her to be badgering me again in the not too distant future though. I have also restricted her access to various sites online, so she can't get onto them via her profile on our PC.

[ClaireG]

I totally agree with saying "no". It's tough love all the way in this house! One thing that really gets to me is a general lack of manners. I've always encouraged good manners and have been shocked by some friends and family members whose children seem to be lacking.

[Old Speckled Hen]

Facebook and Internet networking is a minefield and very scary especially if you are the parent of a youngster.

You are all right in exercising control over their access.

I have a look around Facebook occasionally, I don't understand most of it and reject all pokes prods and requests and I agree with Egluntyne .... they are endless

[poachedegg]

I have always been consistent with mine....no means no! They also know that there are consequences if no is not adhered to.

 

However I also think that you need to 'know' your child. My 2 eldest (18 & 15) are completely different personalities, so although I get the same end result, I may do it differently for each one.

 

I also think it makes sense to sometimes compromise......well let them think you've compromised!

 

It hasn't always been easy, however I have children that are growing into young adults that we are very proud of.

[patsylabrador]

Sorry to bang on, but Cinnamon has got me going here. One thing I used to hate was other parents who used to laugh at my strictness and boast about how 'streetwise' their kids were. Fighting, trouble with the police, being molested because of how you're dressed and drunk are the opposite of 'streetwise'. I think it means knowing how to read the streets, sensing who's trouble and keeping safe. Some one mentioned about parents bragging about their child' learning from mistakes', from drinking I think. Well for many that lesson isn't learned and they lose their lives. It's a ridiculous and dangerous attitude.

[Tiggy]

I have been a step mum for 15 years, scaryyyyyy, my 2 are now 18 & 21, I have a lovely relationship with them, they always knew that no ment no, we did not allow them to play me Dad & Mum off against each other, even if we disagreed on issues the PARENTS stood together & worked things out. DD did go though a phase as all teens do when she was about 15-16 where she stayed out late turned off the mobile & stood defiantly in front of me at 3 am & told me that I could not tell her what to do & where she went was none of my business she owed her Dad & I nothing, her younger brother then appeared & told her off. NICE!!!!!! She is now a lovely sensible 21 year old who has said that she was glad that she knew where she stood, some of her friends were allowed to do whatever they wanted have whatever they asked for & are now spoiled unhappy young adults, The real world does not give you just what you want without any cost to you. Parents that never say no to any request dont do their offspring any favours

[BarbaraJ]

Sorry to bang on, but Cinnamon has got me going here. One thing I used to hate was other parents who used to laugh at my strictness and boast about how 'streetwise' their kids were. Fighting, trouble with the police, being molested because of how you're dressed and drunk are the opposite of 'streetwise'. I think it means knowing how to read the streets, sensing who's trouble and keeping safe. Some one mentioned about parents bragging about their child' learning from mistakes', from drinking I think. Well for many that lesson isn't learned and they lose their lives. It's a ridiculous and dangerous attitude.

 

 

Don't get me started on that lol i always got laughed at for my strictness too. Not letting my kids hang around the streets was abnormal!!i don't mean playing with friends , i mean young teens hanging in groups around shops, sorry i never saw a reason to do this, i always offered for them to have people here and they did.

So because i was over strict my kids are all working/studying, not pregnant under 16, and are all commented on being friendly polite adults! i wonder why!!! i do thank god for mine not really having an electronic childhood. My 20yr old son loves his PS3 but they didn't really have anything like that until early teens.You don't become social by being plonked in front of the TV or games console all day.

It is HARD to be a parent it isnt supposed to be easy, making it easy for yourself is saying yes to everything, being a best mate. I have a 3 yr here i look after that has that already , has no concept of people saying no to him has mega tantrums every time hes told no

[Old Speckled Hen]

The one common thread through all these replies is that disciplined children turn into well adjusted adults. I have long thought that children become hooligans(now there's an old fashioned term ... sorry) as a result of parental disinterest and my heart goes out to these poor kids that are a product of numpty parents. They don't ever have a chance!

[alih]

Well I have 4 kids, from 15-6, and they all know that no means no.

 

I too am saddened by parents who are afraid to disappoint or restrict their children. Aren't we trying to turn them into adults who can cope with disappointment in life?

 

I am often told by my 4 that I am too strict: I limit their screen time, won't let them have screens in their rooms, remind them of manners, expect them to help around the house and don't give them loads of pocket money. Nor will I buy them drink to take to parties!

 

My oldest is 15 and raising money for a trip to Argentina to work on a community project for a month. not for a minute has she suggested we should pay or she should not contribute by working hard.

 

We eat together every night, support each other and despite my 2 oldest going through an amicable divorce but a divorce nonetheless and my 2 youngest losing their mum when they were 5 and 1, my husband and I did not spoil them but stuck to our guns and routines and said no frequently!

 

They are ( I think) so far happy, secure, well-adjusted, polite kids who are far from perfect but don't expect their wishes to be granted or things to fall from the sky for them.

 

I wonder how the kids that are given everything they ask for will cope with the sense of failure and frustration when they are older?

 

Don't get me wrong - it's easy to sound smug isn't it, and I am certain I make tonnes of mistakes with my gang - but I never thought kids were in charge!! Aren't we the bosses and responsible for them?

 

PS. I never knew that facebook was for +13s and am very glad both mine are! Thanks for that, Eglutine!

[BarbaraJ]

I also think so many more now just want to be mates especially when they are often so young as parents ( well around here anyway )

[majorbloodnock]

Hmmm.

 

OK, I've just read through the whole of this thread and it's certainly made me pause for thought. However, rather than confirming me in my attitude, it has raised more questions.

 

Firstly, my parenting style. It's my habit to be fairly involved with my kids, and relatively strict to boot. Both my wife and I have very similar attitudes, and we strive to be as consistent as possible, both over time and between parents - the lines we draw are anything but fuzzy, and don't move much. Therefore my inclination is to agree with all that's been posted in this thread.

 

However, fairness forces me to admit that the vast majority of children across all sections of our society grow up into reasonably normal, reasonably honest, reasonably well balanced adults. Now, it could be that the vast majority of parents secretly enforce the same level of discipline as me and my wife, but I doubt it. The only conclusion I can draw, then, is that the laissez-faire parenting style is perhaps not the shibboleth it's being made out to be.

 

Nonetheless, given my kids share half my genes, I've a pretty good idea of which buttons produce which effects, so I will still assert that my parenting style is almost certainly the right one for them, but I'll steer clear of any wider generalisations this time round.

 

One final point, though, relates to OSH's comment that "disciplined children turn into well adjusted adults". I found myself nodding in agreement to this before remembering that one can over discipline as well as under discipline, so I can't let the comment rest. In my opinion, children need to learn there are consequences to their actions (good and bad alike), and discipline is one way of demonstrating that. However, they also need the space to make their mistakes and learn for themselves, and that's something that will inevitably cause short term problems with each child at certain times in its life. If a child gets roaring drunk before they get to 18, is that a problem? Personally, I think not. If it makes a habit of it, then that's something different, but a child has to have a bit of responsibility in order to learn how to manage it, and an overly strict set of parents will stifle that. Incidentally, that's the greatest ongoing problem I face as a parent - not being too strict - so I'm far from being an expert on hitting the right balance.

[Old Speckled Hen]

Hmmm.

 

 

 

One final point, though, relates to OSH's comment that "disciplined children turn into well adjusted adults". I found myself nodding in agreement to this before remembering that one can over discipline as well as under discipline, so I can't let the comment rest.

 

I think the discipline has to be "made to measure" so to speak, rather than a one fits all.

I was never a disciplinarian preferring reasoned argument over force but then I was lucky enough to have a daughter who was eager to please me.

Consistency is key and the ability to control one's temper. I remember losing it once fleetingly when my little one at the age of maybe three mixed up boxes and boxes of jigsaws. The look on her face when I shouted at her haunts me still and I never ever lost my temper with her again.

[majorbloodnock]

Hmmm.

 

 

 

One final point, though, relates to OSH's comment that "disciplined children turn into well adjusted adults". I found myself nodding in agreement to this before remembering that one can over discipline as well as under discipline, so I can't let the comment rest.

 

I think the discipline has to be "made to measure" so to speak, rather than a one fits all.

I was never a disciplinarian preferring reasoned argument over force but then I was lucky enough to have a daughter who was eager to please me.

Consistency is key and the ability to control one's temper. I remember losing it once fleetingly when my little one at the age of maybe three mixed up boxes and boxes of jigsaws. The look on her face when I shouted at her haunts me still and I never ever lost my temper with her again.

 

I agree.

 

One point I think we all have missed, though, is that, as well as allowing for kids to make mistakes and learn from them, we need to do the same for parents. I suspect that if less than 50% of my active parental intervention is a bundle of mistakes, I'll have done well, so that means my kids, not me, will deserve most of the credit if they mature into respectable adults.

[Seagazer]

Majorbloodnock you write with an great understanding of the world. We are fairly strict but not over strict. My parents were very strict and I did feel stifled as did my husband with his parents. We have boundaries but I'd like to think that we are fair with them. I'd like to think that my kids are happy to come to me with any problems etc.

 

Someone I know is very soft and hardly disciplines her children at all and when she does its ineffectual. She does this because her husband is over strict and the children can't breathe for being in the wrong. Their eldest son is hard work and constantly gets into trouble. No consistency just doesn't work.

 

Its a very fine line and I think every family has to do what is right for them. We've got brilliant kids, we've all had rows and the odd bit of trouble over the years (they are 22, 18 and 12) etc but they are polite to strangers and family and friends and good kids.

[chickenanne]

There's a difference between a one-off "event" and a behaviour pattern, but I do take the point that even a one-off error can have devastating consequences. IMO, the important thing is that kids develop some level of common sense in avoiding dangerous company and situations, but the problem is that as a teen most will be more spontaneous/live in the moment to a far greater extent than an adult would.

Equally I cannot abide the attitude of "it couldn't possibly be my child who did xyz, s/he is a good kid": of course every parent should have confidence in their offspring, but equally every parent should be aware that all kids have the POTENTIAL to do wrong. I find it very scary that some parents allow their kids to (eg) hang about the streets late into the evening, more than likely either getting into bother themselves, or encouraging others to do so, on the basis that "my kids are always well behaved". It just seems really naive, and it's very hard to see how that's acceptable by anyone's measure.