What makes a chicken coop easy to live with?

[Dolly]

Yesterday I went to lunch with a friend and on the way home, we stopped off at her friend's house. The friend (Graham), was just going next door to feed the neighbour's pets as they were on holiday, so we went with him.

 

All I can say, is the house and garden looked derelict, I honestly thought no-one could be living there (I'm no fuss pot

when it comes to cleaning and maintenance but this was awful).

We fought our way through the undergrowth into the garden and I saw a bank of small filthy rabbit hutches, each with a sad looking rabbit inside. Graham mentioned they were never let out into the garden.

As if I couldn't get more upset, he then said "oh, they've got chickens too", my heart sank as I saw two scrawny, battered looking hens in a small pen, with hardly any food and a plastic drinker that had turned almost black inside. They had no nest box, with the exception of a 'boarded over' corner and the whole pen was thick with droppings.

By now I was holding back the tears and trying to think of a way of taking them home myself.

 

The problem I have is, whilst I would like to report them to the RSPCA, the only way anyone would have found out about these animals would be if they had a key to the locked garden gate. The garden is an old fashioned very high walled type, so I couldn't even say "I saw all this over the wall". They would immediately suspect Graham as he was the only one with a key. He wasn't too fazed by any of this by the way, I guess he's used to it, and I can't imagine he'd want to report them himself.

 

I should mention, the occupants are professional people with children at Cambridge, so we're not talking about people with no sense (I would have thought).

 

I honestly wish I hadn't gone with my friend to see this now, if I can't do anything about it, I'd be better off not knowing.

 

What would you all do? I know I can count on you for advice as we all feel the same way on here about animal husbandry.

[percy049]

Is does sound a serious issue - I think you should talk to your friend Graham about it first.

[fluffy chick]

Gosh this is a difficult situation. It doesn't sound like cruelty but possible neglect. I would try and get your friend to report them but sound like they won't.

 

How long are they away for? I would go round and give everything a really good clean and feed and treat the animals. The owners will think their neighbour has just done a really good job looking after them and might even take the hint that everything was so dirty and keep on top of it.

[Chucky Mama]

A tricky one I would speak to your friend about it. Whilst the conditions are awful, they have at least asked someone to look after them while they are away - small consolation I know but it does show a level of caring. I would give the animals a bit of a makeover while they are away. See if you can give them a jolly good clean out and see what you can do to provide them with better conditions. Perhaps the owners will continue the level of cleanliness and good husbandry when they return.

[Tigerlily]

OMG what an awful situation

 

I know what I would want to do - break into the garden and take the animals! I don't think I could bear knowing how they were being treated.They probably would just replace them though, so it wouldn't solve anything long term.

 

How can your friend not be bothered/worried about their condition? How can the owners not see that they are being cruel to their pets and what's the point of having them if they treat them like that?

 

How difficult is it for you as well xxx You have really been put into an awkward corner - and it won't be easy to deal with. I would ask your friend how he feels about the condition of the animals and explain how you feel too.

 

Good luck x

[Tigerlily]

A tricky one I would speak to your friend about it. Whilst the conditions are awful, they have at least asked someone to look after them while they are away - small consolation I know but it does show a level of caring. I would give the animals a bit of a makeover while they are away. See if you can give them a jolly good clean out and see what you can do to provide them with better conditions. Perhaps the owners will continue the level of cleanliness and good husbandry when they return.

 

I was also going to say the same about cleaning them out... you would like to hope that they may take the hint! But... something tells me they won't and the animals would be back to square one in a couple of weeks.

 

As far as I'm concerned, if you can't take care of animals, you shouldn't have them!

[Henchanted]

Dolly, what an awful dilemma.

 

Have you told your friend what you think....or do you know Graham at all, to express your concerns and the resultant desire to do something about it?

Thoughts that have struck me are....Is Graham supposed to clean them out everyday and if so is he doing this?

What are your friends thoughts on all this or Grahams ?

 

If you don't want to involve your friend or Graham, are there any or many neighbours houses which can see into the garden from upper floors so that Graham isn't suspected as the informant.

Maybe Graham took you there to see your reaction because he knows this is not right?

 

I suspect that the owners would probably not be that bothered if they came back and found the animals had been taken somewhere more suitable, though I don't think the RSPCA necessarily do this as a first reaction, rather they work with the animal owners to improve their living conditions.

 

I think you need to talk to your friend unless you think she will tell you not to interfere, and even see if you can talk to Graham. if there are other houses that overlook the garden it would be safe to take the matter into your own hands and have a word with the RSPCA. It may be worth having a chat to them about your dilemma, without making an official report, I'm sure they have ways of dealing with these things diplomatically.

 

Yes failure to provide a safe, clean and adequate environment for animals is neglect and is cruelty and I would not be able to sleep until I did something about it...

 

Good luck Dolly

[Dolly]

Hi Tigerlily, yes, getting hold of them myself was my initial reaction, but as you said, the owners would just get more

 

Unfortunately my connection to these poor creatures is quite far removed ie. they belong to the neighbour of my friend's friend (so 3 people removed from me if that makes sense), who I don't really know and we visited on the way back from a 30 mile trip yesterday.

 

I'm minded to ask my friend to speak to her friend in turn, about talking to their neighbour or at least cleaning things up a bit while they're away as CM said. It's just so heartbreaking when I'm sitting here looking out of the window at my pampered lot.

[Green Tea]

That's very difficult ....

 

Perhaps you could get them all out and then make it look like a fox got in

[johnandkymberley]

Hi Dolly, i agree awful situation to be in but i agree with the other posts on here, deffo speak to your friend. Maybe try and speak to him in a concerned way and maybe try and add the state of the garden in too, so like "im not being funny but the next door neighbours garden was a bit untidy" and then bring the state of the animals later in the convo. I know what you mean about looking at your pampered hens. I know this sounds awfully obnoxious of me but i dont want to think of battery hens. It upsets me so much, as does any cruelty. My animals are part of the family, their names get written on xmas and birthday cards and they are all treated with love and TLC. Our cat Millie is the baby, seriously she acts human, she follows me (mainly, as shes a mummies girl) around,tries to sit on my knee when im on the loo, watches me in the shower (if i pull the curtain across, she will pull it back with her paw) and i have to hold her most of the day as she wont shut up overwise, saying that i do love our "5 minutes together" i try and make it clear to her its just going to be 5 mins, i think she understands me! i have had her since i was 11 and it has always been me and mill, unlike dogs you earn your love with a cat and the fact that she sleeps in my arm every night and stays there all night just shows how much ive earned her love and how much animals mean to me. I feel quite guilty that i can only have 10 hens, i would have hundreds if i could to save them from batt farms but i cant so i think i have saved 10 hens and done the best i can, which in reality is all you can do. Deffo have a word with your friend, whats the worst that could happen? xx

p.s one of my good friends, who gave me willow and lily got an ear bashing from me. We picked up Willow and Lily and they were dripping wet, shaking terribly and not white they were grey/black. I worked with this friend and we were really close until i lost my job and had a go at her! I told her it was disgusting how she was treating her hens etc, thats putting it mildy. She had 6 but i could only take 2, god knows how the others put up with it. Basically she drenched them with the hosepipe everytime they made a noise. This was a very good friend aswell, but i would never had not said anything. My girls are outside now, being kept in most of the day-as they are on flubenvet pellets. They are making a right noise (shouting at me probably) but i would never dream of soaking them with a hosepipe!! xxx

[WitchHazel]

I think I would raise it with your friend and say that you think the animals aren't being kept in particularly good conditions. I don't think you should bring up the state of the garden. That's neither here nor there, and would just cloud the issue.

 

There may be other factors that you aren't aware of. For example, drinkers can get mucky very, veryquickly. We scrub our allotment ones out every two days, and every two days they have still have green slimy stuff growing in them. Some friends of ours have been on holiday for 2 weeks. They had someone else looking after their chooks for the 9 days, and DH and I are looking after them from today. The drinkers, which are normally spotless, are really filthy, and I know that has happened just in the space of 9 days because the other person looking after them hasn't scrubbed them out at all.

 

It doesn't sound like cruelty to me, just not the conditions that I would personally choose to keep my animals in.

[Tweety]

What a dilemma. I would definitely speak to your friend, and find out her views. Could it be that the animals had not been cleaned out while the owners are away, or did it look like a long term problem?

I'm not sure there is much you can do tbh. I have a good friend who has had hens for many years, and they live in conditions which I would find unacceptable, but they are certainly not being mistreated. Sadly, I think we have to accept that not everyone treats their animals in the same way as we do, though in no way do I condone the sort of living conditions that you have described and I would be very upset to see these poor creatures.

[mart2584]

Its a hard one for you.

 

Personally I would have taken them home all of them kept the chooks and dropped the bunnies at a sanctuary.

But that is me I couldnt leave them like that, even just giving them fresh water with a dose of lifeguard,feed and a clean up might help but alas as some have already said the people who leave there do not seem to give a damn about the animals or the garden so if you are worried about taking them get the RSPCA involved straight away the sooner you get in touch the sooner they can sort it and helpmthe poor things out.

 

Good Luck

[Chortle Chook]

Its probably not what you want to hear but I would certainly call the RSPCA, friend or no friend. As the saying goes 'For evil to happen it is suffcient for the good to pass by and say nothing'. I don't think one should ever walk by on the other side and leave animal suffering un-announced. When phoning the RSPCA you could tell them the whole situation just as you have put it here. You can be certain it won't be the first such case they have come across. They will have dealt with this sort of thing many times before and will know how to handle it. However tell your friend first what you are going to do. Really they should be doing it anyway.

[Plum]

I would question why your friend was looking after them and had left them with hardly any food and a dirty water container.

The fact there was some food meant they hadn't run out between visits so was probably ok and the water can get dirty quickly in a dirty run. Would have thought it was common sense for him to clear droppings if they were building up. Do you know how long they had been away? It may not be the normal situation for these chickens so I wouldn't do anything without considering what may really be happening.

 

Did the chickens look bright and active? Did they have anywhere to roost at night out of the droppings?

[Tigerlily]

I would question why your friend was looking after them and had left them with hardly any food and a dirty water container.

The fact there was some food meant they hadn't run out between visits so was probably ok and the water can get dirty quickly in a dirty run. Would have thought it was common sense for him to clear droppings if they were building up. Do you know how long they had been away? It may not be the normal situation for these chickens so I wouldn't do anything without considering what may really be happening.

 

Did the chickens look bright and active? Did they have anywhere to roost at night out of the droppings?

 

The thing is Plum this is what Dolly had said in her initial post:

We fought our way through the undergrowth into the garden and I saw a bank of small filthy rabbit hutches, each with a sad looking rabbit inside. Graham mentioned they were never let out into the garden.

As if I couldn't get more upset, he then said "oh, they've got chickens too", my heart sank as I saw two scrawny, battered looking hens in a small pen, with hardly any food and a plastic drinker that had turned almost black inside. They had no nest box, with the exception of a 'boarded over' corner and the whole pen was thick with droppings.

 

I should mention, the occupants are professional people with children at Cambridge, so we're not talking about people with no sense (I would have thought).

 

I honestly don't think this is a case of Graham neglecting them whilst the owners are away - this is the sad life they are enduring... Scrawny battered hens and sad looking rabbits aren't describing them as a picture of health are they? They don't even have a proper nestbox, let alone somewhere to roost and the rabbits can't play out and I bet the chooks don't free range either!

 

I'm sorry if I'm getting on my soapbox - I am just so passionate about animals and I do think this is neglect/cruelty. The fact the house and garden are in a state also adds to the evidence against them.

 

Maybe they can't afford to look after them if their children are at Cambridge? There really is no excuse!

[Redwing]

At this time of year some of my chooks don't have a coop or a nestbox or a very big run, some look scruffy from breeding or moulting but I don't think I am cruel - what I am trying to say is that people have different standards and what is unacceptable to one person isn't to another.

 

The state of the garden is irrelevant in this and will cloud the issue

 

Take a long hard think about the situation taking in to account how long your friend had been looking after the pets, the people may have been away for a month or something. Bullying is common among hybrids some people on here will have scruffy looking chooks through no fault of their own

 

If you are still sure the RSPCA should be involved then approach them

 

A neighbour could easily complain about smell or flies so it doesn't necessarily follow that it was someone who had been in the garden that reported it

[Plum]

Was just saying don't take it at face value. They could be exbats that were recently acquired or moulting. Two of mine are moulting at the moment.

[Tigerlily]

I'm honestly not saying you shouldn't look at things from all angles... But the house/garden isn't clouding the issue if the animals are also in a bad way - it does suggest neglect...

 

My OH's old house - he lived there as a boy with his family and was bought by a seemingly decent family. His Mum left curtains and was scrubbing the kitchen floor the day they moved!

Basically, they are still there nearly 29 years later... The house is disgusting, the same curtains are still there nailed to the windows! They had at least three dogs and they never cleaned the garden up after them. The smell? The next door neighbour had a breakdown because of it... They had good jobs and all the children went to Uni. It isn't uncommon to find people like this everywhere.

 

If you were going away for a while you would make sure your house/garden looked lived in wouldn't you? Why would the house look derelict?

 

It just doesn't add up to me - maybe probably I'm too much of a cynic? I really am not trying to offend anyone btw This is from a mad chook woman who was even wiping a snotty beak earlier this week as well as looking after a little chick 3 yr old daughter with tonsilitis

[Plum]

No not necessarily, a neglected house and garden doesn't mean you are bad people. Perhaps just not got a lot of time and money. You don't have to have a good job to have family at Uni thank goodness though it helps and poor people can look after animals as well or poorly as someone more fortunate.

 

If the rabbits and chickens were ill and they'd not sought veterinary care that would be obvious neglect but I think the issue Dolly was concerned about was the environment, space and appearance of the housing.

 

Anyway if it was me looking after them I'd give them all a good clean out and leave a gift of some stalosanf if I thought it appropriate.

[Tweety]

Plum is right, we don't know all the facts and it is unwise to make assumptions. Perhaps you could try to find out more about the conditions the animals are kept in when their owners are at home and, if you are still concerned about neglect once you have more information, then contact the RSPCA.

[Henchanted]

Hello Dolly

 

you say you visited on Monday,it is now Wednesday, have you had a chance to speak to your friend and found out the address of her friend Grahams neighbours ? Or talked to the RSPCA yet about your concerns ? I think in your heart you know what the right thing to do is, you don't need the forum to tell you that while there is a huge variety of styles in animal keeping, there is a standard below which animals shouldn't be kept.

 

[Chortle Chook]

The RSPCA aren't the police. They won't just wade in. They will look at the situation from all angles and will approach it from the point of view of needing to educate people about how to look after animals and respect the 5 freedoms. They would only take animals away or start court cases for dire circumstances and this is not one of those. The state of the house and garden is irrelevant (the RSPCA are not Social Services) , however the state of the chicken housing and particularly the rabbits lack of exercise would be of concern to them. I think it would do no harm to call them.

 

Unfortunately as chicken keeping becomes increasingly popular, there will be a rise in neglect cases for chickens as people who are not suitable pet keepers will end up taking them on under the mistaken impression that they are 'maintenance free'. Rabbit neglect is also a huge problem.

[C&T]

Without knowing the full story it is hard to say.

 

Maybe the rabbits were seperated just while the owners are away to prevent fighting? I know one of our chooks is seperated at the moment for this reason!

 

And does your contact really know how the owner looks after the animals. They maybe let them out when there are no visitors to distract the owners from fox watching.

 

Not saying the original poster is wrong to be concerned, and they should contact the RSPCA if they feel it is justified, but things aren't always black and white, and not sure it is something we can comment on with the very limited facts.

[Dolly]

Thank you all so much for your responses, taking them all into consideration, and the fact that as some have said, I don't really have the full picture, I've asked my friend to get Graham to talk to his neighbour when they return from holiday, about our concerns with the animals (and also for him to give them a bit of attention maintenance-wise before they get back). It's certainly a difficult situation for all but if this doesn't prove successful, then I will call the RSPCA myself and get their advice on how best to tackle it.

Thanks again everyone.