DebbyTutton Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) I have a terribly broody hen who spends two weeks broody then two weeks laying then two weeks broody etc and has done since May. Poor girl doesn’t know whether she is coming or going and it is so hard to make sure she is eating properly. Rather than go down the road of “how to get her out of being broody” I have been researching why it happens and if there is a way of reducing the problem. heres my findings after a lot of sieving thought the internet trash. Broodyness is caused by heat and too much Estradiol. The weather is hard to control and I already have misters in the garden with lots of cold water. So this leads me to the chemical option. Prolactin reduces estradiol. Dopamine increases Prolactin and (this is the crucial bit) amongst other things Tumeric produces dopamine. so... if I give Tumeric at a doe of 1 level teaspoon per kg of feed this “should” decrease the amount she is broody. in reverse - Tumeric produces Dopamine increases Prolactin reduces Estadiol of which too much causes broody in theory ! does anyone have any further information regarding this line of thought ? Or experience of broodyness vs tumeric ? Broad beans are supposed to be excellent for producing dopamine but there are too many side effects/risks involved so I am opting for tumeric. I will keep this post up to date although be prepared for a long wait to gather my findings. Edited July 16, 2019 by DebbyTutton Typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 I love the research and thought process, I've just had a quick look and can't find anything published to suggest it would work (mostly concentrating on growth rates in India). To be honest I think it would be a lot easier to manage her behaviour using broody crates and keeping her off the nest once they've laid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DebbyTutton Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 Hi Lewis, Thanks for taking the time to look into this. I too found lots of India based research but which piece are you specifically interested in ? For me the document which kicked it all off was “Effect of prolactin on estradiol and progesterone secretion by isolated chicken ovarian follicles” On academia.edu I found it fascinating and hope that it was genuine as it got my thought processes galloping. From there I worked backwards to broad beans and then to tumeric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DebbyTutton Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 oh nearly forgot. Annie my girl in question has been in the slammer as we call it but after a week I decided it could not continue. I was concerned about her feeding which seemed rare. She was becoming withdrawn and never moved. Now I take her out of the nesting box every time I find she’s missing. She mixes although is clearly at the bottom of the pecking order but at least I can see her eating and moving about. The moving alone should help her but I really feel that I need to find work on a preventative measure rather than constantly trying to cure her each time it happens. Even if the preventative measure gives her another week of non broodyness each time then it will be worth it. At the moment her life is miserable because of the instinct which keeps coming and biting her on the ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia W Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Was the ‘slammer’ a wire dog crate on bricks so air could circulate underneath? That usually works within about 3 days. The turmeric research sounds interesting so let me know if it works. My solution for the future - don’t buy breeds which go broody! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chookchat Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 I too have a very persistent broody who is now 10 years old...thought she would be in the henopause by now! With the broodiness comes a girl who changes from a sweet natured hen to a screaming banshee on acid. I have found the best way to help her is when she is not broody is to block up the nest box at night so she can't build up a head of steam and then when she does eventually succumb, to sin bin her until the others have laid,shut up the house and let her out to mix with the others.Then sin bin her overnight up on bricks,this usually takes about 5 days.She is without doubt the most determined broody I have ever had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DebbyTutton Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Patricia W said: Was the ‘slammer’ a wire dog crate on bricks so air could circulate underneath? That usually works within about 3 days. The turmeric research sounds interesting so let me know if it works. My solution for the future - don’t buy breeds which go broody! Yep, that sounds just like my slammer. Unfortunately she has decided now that she won’t eat or drinkwhilst in there. I also have a fan on one side of the cage as we have extreme temperatures this summer. 20 minutes ago, Chookchat said: I too have a very persistent broody who is now 10 years old...thought she would be in the henopause by now! With the broodiness comes a girl who changes from a sweet natured hen to a screaming banshee on acid. I have found the best way to help her is when she is not broody is to block up the nest box at night so she can't build up a head of steam and then when she does eventually succumb, to sin bin her until the others have laid,shut up the house and let her out to mix with the others.Then sin bin her overnight up on bricks,this usually takes about 5 days.She is without doubt the most determined broody I have ever had. Oh bless, she sounds just like Annie. I am sure she is related to the Alien in the famous films as she can send out her neck feathers to real effect. Unfortunately I just laugh which doesn’t seem to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chookchat Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Because she's a 'posh' bird her name is Vivienne,I also have Rosie,Flora,Bisto,Lola and Roxy.I'm interested in your theory about turmeric,keep us posted,good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 17 hours ago, Lewis said: I love the research and thought process, I've just had a quick look and can't find anything published to suggest it would work (mostly concentrating on growth rates in India). To be honest I think it would be a lot easier to manage her behaviour using broody crates and keeping her off the nest once they've laid. I agree I take Tumeric for joint discomfort and find that it heats me up, so I'm inclined to think that it wouldn't work. My current flock has 4 birds which persistently brood, but I am putting them through the broody cage and it works. Just sorting a relapse from when i was away for a week and the neighbour wasn't boosting them off the nest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DebbyTutton Posted July 17, 2019 Author Share Posted July 17, 2019 Sigh 😔 sounds like you are right if it heats them up it ain’t gonna help. But I am keen to try and improve things for her so after my current project (titled Who’s Been Eating The Chook Feed?) I will give it a go. Still think the logic sounds firm. 🙄 (Actually my current project should be titled Who’s Been Eating The Chook Feed Molly as I am convinced the cat is munching it but need to prove it to hubby so have a movement detector camera in position) 13 hours ago, Chookchat said: Because she's a 'posh' bird her name is Vivienne,I also have Rosie,Flora,Bisto,Lola and Roxy.I'm interested in your theory about turmeric,keep us posted,good luck She is beautiful Chookchat. A real Stunner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DebbyTutton Posted July 17, 2019 Author Share Posted July 17, 2019 I have just found an article which identifies the drd1 gene as being directly relative to egg production and broodyness, the drd1 is the dopamine receptor. Although I am unable to link this research to my findings on tumeric it does mention numerous other high protein foods which are high in tyrosine and phenylalanine. These are the two amino acids which enhance the properties of drd1. in a nutshell, this means (my understanding) that products such as tuna, sardines, salmon, bananas, lentils, peanut butter, tofu and chickpeas as well as yogurt and cheese “should” help in reducing the broodyness even slightly by increasing her dopamine. My process plan is ... 20 July to 20 August I will add 1 level teaspoon of tumeric per kg of feed and provide Annie with a slice of banana every morning (which I know she will love and provides generous amounts of the required amino acids). I will keep a close eye on her to compare with my notes of the past two months. Keep your fingers crossed for us you guys 🤞 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Hmmmm My theory is that the fluffier they are, the more likely they are to brood - it is 'catching' though and other non-broody birds will join them just for the comfort and then get hot etc...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DebbyTutton Posted July 18, 2019 Author Share Posted July 18, 2019 😂 I think you could be right, but it is true that certain breeds are more susceptible than others and they tend to be the fluffier ones. Annie is an Araucana so very fluffy but not as much as a silkie. Perhaps, in breeding the hens to be more attractive to us humans the fluffier gene has Become linked to the drd1 gene ? An idea ? Thank goodness my other girls just look at her with disdain when she’s broody and run away from the sharp end. They don’t get broody but none of my others are mega fluffy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat tails Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 I think you approach the hormone story to linear. Hormones don’t just work as a linear cascade. Hormones inhibit themselves, each other etc. If dopamine levels get to high, it might inhibit itself of something else. It is not just a domino effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DebbyTutton Posted July 18, 2019 Author Share Posted July 18, 2019 Mmm, hadn’t thought of It that way, do you have experience in these matters ? I would welcome alternative ideas ? i cant help but feel that I have to do something and this is the closest to something I can find using the data I have found online. If it doesn’t work at least I will have tried. even if it gives her another week off-brood then it will be worth it as far as I am concerned. I also accept that to get a true analysis it will take a couple of years because of weather fluctuations. i have to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 I'd be careful giving her banana every morning - seems like a lot of sugar to me and could cause crop problems? Apart from grapes every occasionally (we're talking once a year ) I avoid giving ours fruit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DebbyTutton Posted July 29, 2019 Author Share Posted July 29, 2019 Hi Lewis, I don’t give her much, only one slice, probably about 2g. I agree about the sugar I do try to keep it down although we have lots of wild plum trees around us and of course they do fall. Also because of the heat I give them cold watermelon, but only when it’s over 35c which has been often recently. I think it’s essential as it provides extra water. Normally I don’t give them much in the way of extras as they spend most of their day in our small oak wood and get enough food from there. Annie is a special case, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 5 hours ago, DebbyTutton said: Also because of the heat I give them cold watermelon, but only when it’s over 35c which has been often recently. I think it’s essential as it provides extra water. Just pop some part-filled plastic bottles of water in the freezer and then put them in the drinkers when it's really hot - it's all they need. I don't feed fruit either, and am careful to pick up windfalls before letting them out to free range. Mine get pellets and the odd handful of seeds to get them in and that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamrhind Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Can somebody enlighten me as to why fruit seems to be considered a no no for hens? Mine live in an orchard - they eat apples, pears, plums and blackberries and we give them watermelon rinds. I've never noticed it doing any of them any harm and they get all the other nutrients they need via their feed. Am I missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 I speak to lots of people who have crop problems, most say they don't give treats but when I say avoid fruit and yoghurt they remember they give those daily... Chickens will thrive on layers pellets but as humans we want to give them a varied diet. Sugary fruit will sit in the crop and ferment quicker than grains which are then broken down by the gizzard. We all know they are fine on occasional fruit but I see people making yoghurty fruit salads and porridge every day, then they come in with crop problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamrhind Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Thanks Lewis. A quick internet search showed loads of sites which suggested giving fruit to chickens was no problem, but I value the comprehensive knowledge of this group's members more I've never had any chickens with crop problems, but then (apart from watermelon rind) I never give fruit to the chickens - they take it themselves from windfall, but that's incidental. My experience is that chickens with give themselves a varied diet if they get the chance - mine free range 24 hours per day so they don't gorge themselves from any one source. I'll keep an eye on their eating habits in future, though, though I wouldn't want to start having to clear up the fallen fruit - there's not enough hours left in my life for that .... 🤗 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
