Willow Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 The bad news There are a number of different strains of bird flu. All human strains of flu start as an animal flu - invariably bird flu. All major pandemics in history have started as bird flu. Poultry with H5N1 get sick and die very quickly. Wild birds can have H5N1 and show little to no symptoms hence the concern with migratory birds. (see later for comment on this) H5N1 so far has over 50% fatality rate in humans (actually much higher in known cases but I can't remember the statistics right now). In Indonesia as of this week 91 people have died from it. H5N1 is passed in fluids; usually bird faeces, also blood. I have never seen any reports suggesting that it is passed on through eggs (and I've been getting a briefing on bird flu every 2 weeks from a specialist company for the 18 mths or so as part of my job - not because I keep a couple of chickens ). The not so bad news. For the current strain of the virus it is extremely difficult for people to catch bird flu from another human. It isn't that easy for humans to catch it even from birds. People in Indonesia live very closely with a number of birds and hygiene is not so good. A couple of cases in Vietnam were from people drinking ducks blood from an infected duck (eugh) Good hygiene can help protect you, hand washing in hot water & soap and for longer than you would normally. If your backyard birds caught bird flu you would know very quickly because you would have dead birds probably within 24hrs. If that happens report it to Defra and ask your gp for anti-virals. It happens so quickly there is limited time for you to have been exposed. If any neighbours/friends ask covering the run counts as 'implementing bio controls' which is how I'll phrase it to anyone who asks me. When should we really worry This virus might mutate in such a way that it can be passed between people easily (currently infection is deep in humans digestve tract, regular flu is in our respiratory tract). All viruses mutate so this is a very real fear and World Health Orgnanisation (WHO) is monitoring. If this happens it will be in a country where there have been a number of human cases - most likely Indonesia. If this happens catching bird flu from our birds is the least of our worries... A last word on migratory birds Although many experts insist it is spread by migratory birds the facts don't completely back this up - more outbreaks follow truck routes ie. movement of commercial poultry rather than migratory patterns. The UK government is not the only governement to miss that . The BM outbreak was linked to trucks, I'd put money on this one being the same... That said and as someone who is naturally cautious and has to brief others on pandemics planning & bird flu I intend to continue to let my birds free range for now. I will put the winter cover on the run anyway as they are not too good at going into the eglu when it rains so have been getting soggy and if the exclusion zone is increased I'll keep my birds to the run. I guess I'll also remind the kids to wash their hands more often when they have collected the eggs. In the very unlikely event of my birds getting very sick suddenly I would not touch them without protective clothes/gloves etc. Where I would be careful is if I had any reason to go near a large commercial farm particularly intensive bird farms and I would clean car wheels and shoes thoroughly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tessa the Duchess Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Prepare for the anti hen onslaught,folks I have been listening to the news about this and reading the comments here, what DO I say if one of my neighbours complains? I gather you have to be in very close contact with the chickens, sleeping with them? to be at risk of the disease? Tessa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronze Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 and save us from panicking mils Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesley Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 A very good post from Patricia - it explains a lot for those who haven't experienced all the media hype since they acquired chickens. The farm we bought our turkeys had an Open Day planned for this weekend - we were going to call in......... I shouldn't imagine it will go ahead now as part of their own bio-security. We have just completed all the new pens so if it does start to spread then we can confine all our hens to a covered area - they are all still out in the uncovered runs at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goosey Lucy Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Thanks for the information Patricia, my neighbours are fairly sensible but it's good knowing the facts. Lucy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted November 13, 2007 Author Share Posted November 13, 2007 Thanks Patricia.......very comprehensive. It must have taken ages to type up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelsea Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 even though is the worst kind of bird flu. Im not worried at all. This time of year its always the same in the media. I supposed they do have to make people aware but they always scaremonger and blow it all out of proportion. I have most cause for concern than most to be honest. Hubby works with 35,000 live chickens a day and he would be one of the first people to be at risk....and if he isnt worried - then neither am I lets hope it dies down and not many poor birds have to suffer this winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 A short post since my other was very long... If any neighbours etc ask, say... I am implementing bio (security) controls and following DEFRA (government) guidelines so there is no reason for you to be concerned. If anyone is worried they could catch bird flu from your chickens explain that it is not possible unless your birds drop dead the day after the person concerned slipped out at night to drink your chickens blood If anyone still wants to follow-up send them to DEFRA, that's when I expect they will give up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesley Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 If anyone still wants to follow-up send them to DEFRA, that's when I expect they will give up They certainly will...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tessa the Duchess Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Patricia wrote: If anyone is worried they could catch bird flu from your chickens explain that it is not possible unless your birds drop dead the day after the person concerned slipped out at night to drink your chickens blood Thankyou for all the information Patricia...bearing your above quote in mind I now can't wait for the neighbours to complain Tessa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Thats very helpful Patricia - thanks very much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Wild birds can have H5N1 and show little to no symptoms hence the concern with migratory birds. I didn't know that bit! I was thinking I would wait to hear of dead wild birds in East Anglia before I worried about the wild birds flying on down here. I still think I am going to wait for more information. It just seems a bit suspicious to me that a turkey farm should be contaminated just a few weeks before slaughter was due anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueSteve Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Thanks Patricia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Thank you very much for that Patricia. For the current strain of the virus it is extremely difficult for people to catch bird flu from another human. It isn't that easy for humans to catch it even from birds. That quote reminded me of the HIV panic in the mid 80s, when the government was getting everyone in a flap about it being mega-contagious, when in fact, it is actually quite difficult to catch I was travelling and working in 3rd world countries at the time and my mother was having fits about my health! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChookieCaz Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 I had been wondering if we need to buy an extension for the new Cube due to the space - Henrietta and Lizzie seem to take up so much of it due to their sizes! Now, I'm wondering if we have to save even harder to buy one in case they all have to be "confined to barracks". Having seen the pictures of extensions in other threads, I don't think I need to buy anything more to go over the top as we have a winter shade on the Eglu run and also corrugated plastic sheeting to protect the winter cover from hens' feet. Thank you for the information and the suggested replies for anyone who thinks we should get rid of our hens. One concern I still have - if I get an extension, will I still be able to move the cube and run without help? The old eglu with converter extension is too long, heavy and difficult for me to move more than a few inches without help. I was hoping that the Cube's wheels would make all the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallina Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Now that H5 N1 has been confirmed, I imagine that Omlet will be selling a lot more extensions and fewer new set-ups! I keep very quiet about having hens when the news blows up, as the University of Oxford for which I work is regularly has meetings about how it will keep going if there is a bird flu pandemic, and people are very aware of the risks. To reduce the number of sarcastic (and serious) remarks I get, I took part in the H5 N1 vaccine trials and I should be immune, although they don't give you information about the results. I start on the vaccine trials for the next strain of bird flu very soon. I think it is important that we don't panic, but we should take it seriously. Covering the run in winter is a good idea anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Mine is always covered with a clear shower curtain in winter months... it hardly came off with the wet 'summer' we had! Having seen several cubes, if I bought one, I'd have the extension straight away - it gives far more room. I think that you'd lose on manoeverability, but hey, it's a small price to pay for the extra room. Most people seem to keep their eglus/cubes on a permanent site anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jules. Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 My employer has offered free Tamiflu tablets to its employees this year. Hubby & I signed up for it for free ( you have to pay for the tablets for your children) & so I have 2 big boxes of tablets with my medicines. Had an email from the tamiflu folks this week saying not to panic & there is no need to take the tablets yet I really don't know if I would take them anyway if it were advised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Part of my job is pandemic planning so I don't tend to publicise at work that I keep chickens either because of peoples misconceptions - although I may start to mention it when I give briefings to help make the point that garden hens coupled with good hygience and knowledge of the risk factors is not a concern. Knowing more than most about bird flu and pandemic risk I know that the concern with bird flu is it mutating and the more globally widespread it is in birds the more likely it is that mutation will occur (but an outbreak in UK is not patricularly significant in increasing that risk). If that occurs such that we have a new human disease and it isn't caught in time by the World health organisation the whole world has a problem (this has happened in the past, most recently 1954 and we are actually overdue for it to happen again) Hence the need for pandemic planning and I'm glad to hear some organsiations are doing that. If/when a pandemic looks more likely then I'll be getting more chickens to help with the inevitable food shortages that will occur... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 If/when a pandemic looks more likely then I'll be getting more chickens to help with the inevitable food shortages that will occur... Good one! I'm arming myself with all these defensive statements that will take people just a moment to figure out! Not that I have ever had a problem . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickencam Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Should we be stopping our girls from freeranging? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Not in Cheltenham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
