Single hen

[xChicken04x]

Ok, I'm going to be really brave and come clean. I need some advice and I know you lot are a mine of information.

 

As most of you will know, I suffer from M.E, which means I unfortunately suffer from anxiety as well. This has been so severe that for some months I refused to leave the house. I was publicly humiliated at my doctors and drained with the many hospital appointments that once I was diagnosed with M.E in never went back again . So now I hate going to hospitals/doctors.

 

Lately I have been feeling generally 'low' and anxious. I managed to suppress it and get on with my daily life, but it got a bit much. I take Kalms (a herbal remedy) and Rescue remedy when needed, but them don't tend to help a huge amount.

 

On Thursday, I had, had enough. I phoned my doctor and asked for some advice. She prescribed Diazepam over the phone, which I tried 3 years ago (just to get me through hospital appointments) and it just made me feel so relaxed that I was completely 'out of it.' I don't even remember some of the appointments . I was on 2mg, then it was boosted to 5mg (I don't remember why though....)

 

Anyway, I refused my prescription for diazepam and felt well and truly 'fobbed off' by my doctor. I phoned back today and she prescribed 10mg of Cipralex . Which is an anxiety reliever and a mild anti depressant.

I felt quite happy about this and picked my prescription up. I taken the leaflet out of the box to give it a quick read but was shocked at some of the side effects (some of which weren't mentioned by my doc) and it has put me off.

 

Just to add to the problems, I also have a sickness phobia, which includes, being physically sick, others being sick around me, people with tummy bugs etc. I feel like I have this under control a bit more but it can still effect my daily life.

One of the main symptoms of Cipralex is nausea . The other symptoms are:

 

Paranoia

Increased anxiety

severe headaches

twitching

Irrational thoughts

Thoughts of suicide .

 

As well as many more. I just don't know what to do. Obviously if the doctor thinks its safe for me to take them then I should. I just worry about the extent of the nausea. I wouldn't say I'm hugely depressed, just a bit 'low.'

I'm just worried about being physically sick. I can deal with the feeling of nausea, but not being physically sick. The leaflet does say the side effects do pass within the first 1-2 weeks though .

 

Does anyone have any experience of this, both general anti depressants and Cipralex?

 

Many thanks for any help.

 

P.S If I don't reply it's because I've got a funny Internet connection tonight .

[Ain't Nobody Here]

You poor thing . I'm sorry I've got no experience or knowledge of that kind of thing so can't offer any help .

 

Here's a hug though ...

[Guest]

I was initially prescribed Citalopram (a different name for Cipralex http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citalopram) which made me feel queasy. I remember being alarmed when I read the side effects too! I even went back to my docs and asked him if he was sure it was okay for me to take, what with my heart problem etc but he said it was fine, so I did, but it made me ill, even after the 2 weeks. When I told my doc it made me feel ill, he changed it to Sertraline which does not give me any side effects.

 

It was prescribed because I had a severe attack of arrythmia (sp?) which scared me so much, I was afraid to go out on my own in case it happened again.

 

To cut a long story short, it seems to have helped. I also have diazepam for emergencies but my dose is 10mg, I'm 6 foot 1" so 5mg didn't work for me! It does make me feel a bit tired but it also takes away the paniccy feeling so the pros outweigth the cons for me.

 

Maybe ask your GP about Sertraline?

 

Good luck hun, hope the charity shop job is going well

xxx

[Sheilaz]

You're in a very difficult position (& did well to contact the doctor! ) and I can understand your hesitation about the prescription. There are so many different ways of tackling one thing, it would make sense to feel you have a plan of action that you trust.

 

Have you ever joined an online ME group? Lots of information, advice & shared ideas, it might help you to crystalise your thoughts on what would help you best.

 

Sorry I don't have any specific advice about medication, and I totally appreciate your doctor difficulties. There are definitely positive ways forward from your position, and you really deserve not to be struggling on your own, it's a question of finding the right way that helps you.

 

An ME group isn't "just talking to other ill people", it might be a good source of info & suggestions, including discussing appropriate medicines/medical help.

 

Very best wishes

[Snowy]

It's very normal to experience some side effects with antidepressants initially - most people do. But they should ease off after a few days. They can be alarming if you are not expecting them, but if you are aware of what to look for they should be quite manageable. They are a well recognised part of the treatment for ME sufferers and most do find them very helpful in dealing with those lows and the anxiety. All they are doing is replacing the chemical in your body that is known to be defficient in both depression and ME. They are not addictive, but when you are ready to come off them, you do need to do it gradually to prevent a sudden symptom return. I think you were right to be wary of taking the diazepam unless really necessary

Give them a try hon, and hope you feel better soon

[Sheilaz]

I was hoping a nurse would come along, thanks Snowy.

[jenuk99]

Hi there

I just wanted to add my thoughts, I have a friend who has M.E was diagnosed at uni but has not taken anti depressants she uses a herbal pill that has similar results will ask her what it is.

Also I have been taking anti depressants since 2006, I started on Sertraline (I think)

which had the same list of side effects but I experienced none of them. I changed to venflaxine the following year which also have the same list and again I have had none of them. When you start taking them it takes about a month to see the full effects and it would be in that time frame that you would see the side effects but from what I have been told they don't continue after that time. They re balance the chemicals in your brain that affect moods the best way my doctor explained it was when I was diagnosed every day felt like a 'monday' and even if it was saturday there was not happy mood. The pills have balanced that out I still have low days when I dont want to come out from under the duvet but I can feel cheerful now and at the time I never did. Sorry bit of a ramble

But the biggest point my doctor made about anti depressants is that like all treatments one type will work for one person but maybe not for the other so if you try it and it doesnt help or you get effects then you can try another. I did and it has made a big difference to me.

Jen

[Snowy]

Good points Jen and you are right not everyone will experience side effects. I had to take them myself many years ago and I had no problems. You can get herbal antidepressants - but a word of caution: doses of the active ingredient can vary with different manufacturers and even in different batches, of the same herb and you don't have quite the same stringent controls over their manufacture. And, as Jen also pointed out, if you really don't get on with the cipralex, there are others that can be tried instead.

[Karen & co.]

Good point about the side effects Jen, just because it says so on the list doesn't mean that you will have them, drug manufacturers have to put down every possible side effect reported, and some may be only suffered by one person in the test trial.

 

Hope you manage to find some that suits you

 

Karen x

[sandyhas3chucks]

don't know who told me or where I read it, but arrarently in Germany St Johns Wort is the prescrition of CHOICE from GP's.

You might like to make sure you sit in the sun as often as you can, as this time of year is known to make people sad.

SJW is a natural product, available easily.

good luck

[tiggerlady]

My daughter is one the cipro summat tablets..yes they did make her feel a bit queasy,but only for the first few days.She's fine now,and getting much better,although they take 2-3 weeks to feel full effect,so its not a short 'hit' tablet like diazepam. I believe there are certain conditoins that you shouldnt take st johns wort, but you would need to research that one. I used to show my afghan hound and she was a bit nervy, so i used to give her skullcap and valerian from dorwest herbs, and that was very good....!

[..lay a little egg for me]

don't know who told me or where I read it, but arrarently in Germany St Johns Wort is the prescrition of CHOICE from GP's.

You might like to make sure you sit in the sun as often as you can, as this time of year is known to make people sad.

SJW is a natural product, available easily.

good luck

 

Unfortunately, St John's Wort can also cause nausea etc. as side effects, plus it can cause photosensitivity (don't sit in the sun, therefore) and has an alarming list of drug interactions, including with oral contraceptives and with antidepressants, so you have to be careful what other drugs you are taking. Add to that the problem of quality with herbal remedies mentioned by Snowy.

[SarahJo]

Drug companies HAVE to put down all side effects as reported in clinical trials. Also the suicidal thoughts one is on ALL antidepressants I think - reasoning due to improved mood when patients are on drugs, means they are more likely to have these thoughts and carry out the act, whereas most severely non-treated individuals have no motivation to even bother.

 

Again - very diferent modes of action of all the groups of antidepressants, so one persons "cure" is anothers nightmare.

 

I recently had a drug for Labyrinthitis - and the S.Es listed were horrendous - however given that it works on the Central Nervous System what did I expect .

 

My advice - is to research help groups for M.E and get a feel for the anti-depressants too, then GENTLY suggest one which may be better for you. Does your GP offer any related clinics, sometimes these are better at making decisions, as they deal with specific patient groups .

[Ygerna]

I am currently on Citalopram for PND. I found the side effects were midly noticable for about two weeks, however this did not include nausea for me. I am now on a slightly higher dose but experience nothing byway of side effects now.

 

When I was first diagnosed with PND and given the anti-depressants I too was shocked by the list of side effects and I returned to the Dr questioning whether it was the right thing to do. She explained that during the clinical trials patients are required to record all feelings and sensations, physical and mental and therefore if one of them felt ill, nauseous, that would be recorded, but it may have been anything that caused it. She told me that if they were to do a clinical test on an Orange then it would probably have a simliar list of side effects because someone would get a headache after eating one, someone else may feel ill, etc.

 

Give them a go, if you do experience any side effects give them time to subside before asking for something else.

 

Hope you feel more 'ordinary' soon.

[xChicken04x]

 

Maybe ask your GP about Sertraline?

 

Good luck hun, hope the charity shop job is going well

xxx

 

Thanks Poet. If I'm honest I not sure how I feel about going back to the doctors. She really hasn't been that good. I can't help but feel after a 5 minute phone conversation she will quite happily give me anything . I explained that I'd tried the Diazepam and it hadn't helped, it just pretty much knocked me out. She said to just try it again, but I refused . I was so annoyed that she hadn't offered any other advice that I couldn't be bothered to phone back again. I did, though, the next day once I'd cooled down and explained the situation again.

So she then prescribed Cipralex, again, not much explanation about the actual drug. She quickly said it could cause nausea and other side effects and didn't really say much more.

 

I can't help but feel slightly annoyed by the lack of info about what I'd been given. I'm not sure if I want to bother her for another drug if this one doesn't work. But I will if I have too, because I have to think of myself.

 

I haven't tried the charity work yet, Poet. Mainly because I haven't been too well and don't want to put more pressure on myself. I will think about it in a few weeks though .

 

You're in a very difficult position (& did well to contact the doctor! ) and I can understand your hesitation about the prescription. There are so many different ways of tackling one thing, it would make sense to feel you have a plan of action that you trust.

 

Have you ever joined an online ME group? Lots of information, advice & shared ideas, it might help you to crystalise your thoughts on what would help you best.

 

Very best wishes

 

Thank you Sheila. I haven't joined any M.E groups. I think I have been in denial for the past few weeks because I hope it will just go away if I don't think about it.

I've been googleing for the past half hour and have found it really helpful. The trouble is, there is so many different drugs that no-one will ever be able to agree on which one is best .

 

It's very normal to experience some side effects with antidepressants initially - most people do. But they should ease off after a few days. They can be alarming if you are not expecting them, but if you are aware of what to look for they should be quite manageable. They are a well recognised part of the treatment for ME sufferers and most do find them very helpful in dealing with those lows and the anxiety. All they are doing is replacing the chemical in your body that is known to be defficient in both depression and ME. They are not addictive, but when you are ready to come off them, you do need to do it gradually to prevent a sudden symptom return. I think you were right to be wary of taking the diazepam unless really necessary

Give them a try hon, and hope you feel better soon

 

Thank you as well Snowy. All I'm saying is, it's a good job I did read the leaflet otherwise I would have quite happily taken them, then if I did experience any of the bad side effects then I would be very confused, as most of them weren't mentioned to me . That some how doesn't seem right to me.

 

Just to add to the problems, I also have a sickness phobia, which includes, being physically sick, others being sick around me, people with tummy bugs etc. I feel like I have this under control a bit more but it can still effect my daily life.

 

I have this phobia too. Even reading the word 'sick' makes my palms go sweaty and my heart beat really fast. Dont have a clue how I'm going to work in a Health setting . How did you get it under control?!

 

It's just something I've learned to cope with. I've had the phobia for about 3 years now. It's still something that effects my everyday life, but it's getting better. If someone mentions they've had a tummy bug recently, then that's it, I'm off!

The other day I was out just getting food for the chooks, when a drunk guy walked past me and was sick. That is when I can't cope . I wanted to just go straight home, but I took a deep breath and walked away (quickly!) got the chicken's food, then went home.

I get worried if I'm going further than about half an hour from my house as I can get travel sick, so take Stugeron (sp?) (the travel sickness pill) with me. I also take them when I feel nauseous (because of my M.E) and it makes me feel better.

 

Hi there

I just wanted to add my thoughts, I have a friend who has M.E was diagnosed at uni but has not taken anti depressants she uses a herbal pill that has similar results will ask her what it is.

Also I have been taking anti depressants since 2006, I started on Sertraline (I think)

which had the same list of side effects but I experienced none of them. I changed to venflaxine the following year which also have the same list and again I have had none of them. When you start taking them it takes about a month to see the full effects and it would be in that time frame that you would see the side effects but from what I have been told they don't continue after that time. They re balance the chemicals in your brain that affect moods the best way my doctor explained it was when I was diagnosed every day felt like a 'monday' and even if it was saturday there was not happy mood. The pills have balanced that out I still have low days when I dont want to come out from under the duvet but I can feel cheerful now and at the time I never did. Sorry bit of a ramble

But the biggest point my doctor made about anti depressants is that like all treatments one type will work for one person but maybe not for the other so if you try it and it doesnt help or you get effects then you can try another. I did and it has made a big difference to me.

Jen

 

That's good to know. Thank you. It's difficult to get an over all opinion because everyone has such different experiences .

Thank you for you advice!

 

And, as Jen also pointed out, if you really don't get on with the cipralex, there are others that can be tried instead.

 

I understand that , but I get the impression that my doctor has better things to do that to be explaining the different types of drugs to me, which makes me hesitant to ring her again......

 

 

 

I'm sorry I don't have time to quote you all! I didn't expect such a big response .

 

I have tried Cognitive behavioural therapy, but it didn't help me personally. I was very unwell at the time and so tired I was pretty much dead to the world. I feel much more comfortable talking to my family. I still talk to my psychiatrist over the phone every couple of weeks though...

 

 

Ok, so here is what I'm thinking of doing: taking a Stugeron (travel sickness pill) in about an hour, with something to eat. Then if I feel brave, having one of the Cipralex, but cut in half so it's 5mg instead. Then if I'm Ok tomorrow, I'll take another 5mg, then over the next few days increase it to 10mg. What do you think? Oh, and the doc said it's fine to take the Cipralex and Stugeron together.

 

 

Thank you all so much for your advice/support. It means the world to me.

[Guest]

hiya

 

Does your practice have other GPs? Maybe you could ask for an appointment with a different doctor? I've been lucky I guess in that my GP is wonderful and will spend as long as I need talking to me but not everyone is so lucky I s'pose.

 

I did go thru a few GPs at my surgery until I found the one that I seem to 'click' with.

 

Some of my friends and family use the same surgery so from hearsay I always find out which doctor is good etc.

 

Maybe that's an option open to you, to see a different GP?

[xChicken04x]

hiya

 

Does your practice have other GPs? Maybe you could ask for an appointment with a different doctor? I've been lucky I guess in that my GP is wonderful and will spend as long as I need talking to me but not everyone is so lucky I s'pose.

 

I did go thru a few GPs at my surgery until I found the one that I seem to 'click' with.

 

Some of my friends and family use the same surgery so from hearsay I always find out which doctor is good etc.

 

Maybe that's an option open to you, to see a different GP?

 

 

Hi Poet, yes the practice does have other doctors, two that are there all the time (not very helpful though) and others that come and go (practice nurses I think their called).

With this situation, I feel like I need to be able to just see one doctor. Otherwise, there is the danger of having to keep seeing someone different. Unfortunately the only two that are always available aren't that good.

 

I supposed I could look into seeing another doctor, but as you know, I get very nervous about going to doctors anyway, let alone new ones! It also depends on how far I would have to travel...

[Guest]

you poor thing My doctor would NEVER prescribe anything over the phone, not even paracetamol and not even if you've had the same medication before, I ALWAYS have to go in and see him. I'm not sure it's a good idea to prescribe things over the phone without seeing the patient

 

Could you contact your local Primary Care Trust and ask them if there are any other GP surgeries in your area with vacancies?

 

you can put your postcode in here http://www.nhs.uk/servicedirectories/Pages/ServiceSearch.aspx?WT.srch=1 and it tells you which GPs are in your area.

 

If you're housebound with your condition, due to the ME and its various symptoms, you might be able to qualify for disability living allowance and this could help you pay for transport to get you there, if it's far away.

Can you take a family member or a friend with you to help you get thru it?

 

Don't really know what else to suggest.

[jess]

If you don't want drugs, what are you looking for? What is it you want from the doctor?

[Plum]

If you don't want drugs, what are you looking for? What is it you want from the doctor?

 

Good question Jess. Its not always providing drugs sometimes its access to counselling, support, identifying if some other medication being taken is causing the anxiety and drugs working together, its reassurance that something else isn't happening and its access to psychiatric help that's sometimes given but if it is a drug that's needed its the reassurance that you are involved in the decision and you are fully involved in that decision and you know that if a side effect occurs you know what action to take or who to contact.

The majority of patients seeing a dr come away without a prescription but that doesn't mean it was a wasted visit.

 

Keep going xchicken04x You'll get there. Good advice has been given.

[carrie]

I have been reading all your posts, I started suffering from depression last year, my husband went to Iraq and I didn't cope. I was given antidepressants (citalopram) and have just recently come off them. Apart from DH, doctor and a friend I have told no one else about it. I still don't feel great but better than I did. I have read that it is good to write it all down, I'm not a diary person, I think you have to be a bit more organised than I am to write on a regular basis. But today I started to write a poem (never done it before), I don't feel that I can share it with the people I know but feel I need to share it so hopefully I can begin to move on. Sorry for hyjacking this thread.

But here it is

 

Inside I feel so burried

under emotions that won't let me out

A heavy chest

a heavy heart

Eyes hot from tears

I no longer know why I cry

 

I have grand ideas

of a new lifestyle

more simple

less complex

 

I yearn for space

and nature

with wind on my face

a view of the horizon

 

Sometimes I know not what I wan't

at other times it's plain and clear

Do I want time and space

I wish I could turn back the clock

to a time before I felt like this

 

The clock ticks steady and loud

moving me onwards

I can't turn back the clock

but where do I find the energy to move on.

 

I'm certainly no Tennyson but it sums up where I am, sorry it's been a long post. I wish you all healthier times to come

[Guest]

hi Carrie

 

Poetry is brilliant for expressing feelings you can't or don't want to verbalise. It's very cathartic. Good for you

[Alis girls]

Hi so sorry to hear of your problems. I've been on antidepressants for yrs. The side effects do wear off and nausea is one of them but I only get it if i dont eat. I would like to try getting off them but there never seems to be a good time. i am what Trisha Goddard calls a "smiling depressive". Most people are gob smacked when they find I'm on htem. I work part time as a health professional and am a mum of 2 + help extensively on PTA. i do get mood swings and can get very low. I suspect I am "manic depressive" but dont over spend and go mad like some. But do get highs and lows. i think you need to see another Dr and discuss fully. You have a condition which does drag u down considerably. Can u see another Dr in the practice? You are right not to take Diazepam too much. Most modern antid's are non addictive and side effects pass with time. Most people need to be on them 6weeks before seeing a benefit. Good luck. Keep us posted and hang on in there.

[Phoebe]

I can only echo much of what nochucksyet has said. I have been on A-d's since authumn 2005; I'm in the middle of a second attempt to come off them - first one (2006) did n't work as I just felt anxious again within a month and I literally have been too busy and trying too many new things to fit it in again!

 

After 2-3 months quite bad depression, which arose from about a year of chronic anxiety, i started taking A-D's - citalopram to start with and then venlafaxine (Effexor). I relly can't speak highly enough of them !! They allowed me to live again. Since being on them I have done 2 and haolf years voluntary wotk, started a job and become a magistrate. I did have 6 weeks CBT, which helped too - but I really would not have felt well enough to take advantage of the CBT without the AD's.

 

Diazepam is certainly not a long term solution - I spent many afternoons dozing on the sofa on that, and it simply does what it says on the tin, tranquilises you so you don't feel so bad, but it does nothing to move you forward. AD's give you a respite ( a long one in my case!!) to help you take stock, try some different things, and Get Well Again. And believe me, you will get well again, and doing so is well worth the battle

 

When I first took citalopram, I felkt about twice as anxious and stopped taking it, on my GP's advice. When I saw a psychiatrist, he said that that can happen with ADs; at first they magnify the symptoms, but its only for a short period (few days ) and once you are through that, its ok again. They take about 6 weeks to work properly so don't be discouraged if nothing seems to happens to start with.

 

To sum up, best of luck and lots of hugs. If you want to talk anytime, please PM me as I am happy to do anything to stop people feeling ghastly with this awful disease.

 

And remember - you would n't expect to treat a broken leg without drugs, so don;t feel bad if you need some mediaction now. Its a stepping stone, no more no less

[xChicken04x]

Hi guys, thank you all so much for your wonderful advice. It means a lot that you are all so open and supportive.

 

Just a quick update:

 

I taken half a tablet (5mg) last night (about 5.30/6.00pm) and, I'm not sure if it's just physiological but I'm feeling a bit better. Usually I go to bed at about 11.30pm and finally go to sleep about 1.30am, because I usually have a lot on my mind so can't sleep. Last night, however, I was asleep by 10.30pm . I was very tired and just went to sleep without any problems.

I taken another one about an hour ago and so far have had no ill effects. I did however wake up this morning with a slight tightening across my forehead, like a tension headache, but I can cope with that.

 

In reply to some of your comments: I don't think I've ever been clinically depressed, but my anxiety can sometimes get too much for me and that makes me feel low. Once I've got my anxiety under control I think I'll be Ok.

I've got a few changes coming up in my life soon, and I'd rather get my anxiety under control before these changes happen so it won't get too much for me.

 

Anyway, THANK YOU all for your support once again, I'll try and give you a more detailed reply to some of you comments/questions later.

 

Natalie

xx