2009 Omlet cube and run for sale

[Phosphorus]

Not sure if it will do any good, but.......

 

There is a Facebook page set up as a result of the announcements re Child Benefit on Monday 4th October. Please have a look and like us if you feel inclined.

 

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-Child-Benefit/164194330259167?v=wall

 

There is also a petition at :

 

http://www.gopetition.com/petition/39531.html

 

Thanks

[hazard]

done

[debbier]

I actually think the current system should be changed. In the current economic climes, why should everyone get child benefit across the board, regardless of their financial status?

 

However, I think the proposed changes are grossly unfair. It discriminates against houseold incomes when two people may be bringing in nearly 80K, yet would still get the benefit, yet households with one wage earner of slightly over half that wouldn't? It's all very well saying it's "simpler", but surely it would be simpler and fairer to adjust, say, tax credits to allow people who need it more to get the benefits of it?

[sari]

I actually think the current system should be changed. In the current economic climes, why should everyone get child benefit across the board, regardless of their financial status?

 

However, I think the proposed changes are grossly unfair. It discriminates against houseold incomes when two people may be bringing in nearly 80K, yet would still get the benefit, yet households with one wage earner of slightly over half that wouldn't? It's all very well saying it's "simpler", but surely it would be simpler and fairer to adjust, say, tax credits to allow people who need it more to get the benefits of it?

 

I agree. There are many households where the CB is simply not needed, and a luxury, which could be put to much better use. I agree with changing working tax credits, better subsidised childcare, and time off work to care for a sick child. It's alright for the Tories to say any parent of a child over 5 back to work...but what about school holidays, illness etc. There is little or no provision for over 10's and what there is is prohibitively expensive.

[greyhoundgirl]

Except my child benefit is being put away to pay for university fees. Won't afford that now then.

[sari]

Except my child benefit is being put away to pay for university fees. Won't afford that now then.

The new coalition are planning on increasing the fees to 10 grand a year so we may all need to save a bit more than CB.....

[Olly]

I don't have children, so this doesn't affect me directly. When Child Benefit came in, it was a godsend for some mothers - the whole point was that it was paid directly to the mother and did not depend on her husband/partner's income. For some women it was the only money they had control over.

 

I know things have changed since it was first introduced, and this is only going to affect families where one party is earning over £44k - considerably above the average wage - but I feel quite strongly about it because of this history. The criteria seem totally bizarre, surely it should be the family income, not just that of one partner, going above a certain level.

[Space Chick]

This is going to sound harsh, and I am probably not going to make myself very popular by saying it, but I think the British public in the main have expected hand outs just for procreating.

 

I know that some families need extra support hence things like working tax credits. However, I think any benefit that we the tax payer are paying to families should be means tested. Ultimately, people make the decision to have children, "Ooops, word censored!"ody has forced them, so getting cash for them should not be an automatic right.

[C&T]

The criteria seem totally bizarre, surely it should be the family income, not just that of one partner, going above a certain level.

 

Agree.

 

And, while I know more of a challenge to administer, I would also much prefer a sliding scale than a strict cut off (same goes for many other taxes as well, i.e. Stamp Duty). People are far less likely to try and dupe the system that way. And for people earning £45k, as I understand it, it will be in the interest to request a paycut!

 

I also think this is going to affect some areas more than others. While £44k is above average earnings, in London for example far more people are going to earning this - but they are also having to pay all the other higher costs of living in the capital, so are no better off than others earning considerably less in a different part of the world. You don't get "London Weighting" on your salary for nothing!

 

I've also read that people are expecting this to hit the after school clubs, as people cut down on spending. If that is the case, then a lot of clubs etc will face closure. I hope that is not the outcome.

[Griffin]

Well said Space Chick

 

On the whole, if you find that you're no longer eligible to Child Benefit under the new legislation, then quite frankly you're probably well off enough to cope without it because 44k a year is much more than an awful lot of families manage to get by on. It's not as if families earning more than 44k are going to go hungry without it, I should imagine they can make small cuts here and there to account for losing it whereas lower earners could not and would face much harsher choices.

 

I do agree though that it's very unfair for it not to be means tested properly ie a household where both parents earn 40k would still get Child Benefit. I can see those who earn just under 44k asking not for a pay rise but perhaps a company car or other such benefit instead so that they can still qualify.

 

I am one of David Camerons biggest fans and I will support every one of his proposed cuts because I trust him to be doing it to provide a greater Britain for everyone. The debt he has to clear is a burden for us all to bear unfortunately. There will be no excuses for the work shy benefit scroungers soon. As he said before the election, 'those who can should and those who can't should be helped'. Benefits of any kind should be there to help those who really need it, not those who choose not to work.

[Chickendoodle]

I also agree with cutting the benefit for the better off (and in my opinion those earning above £40K are better off)

 

When child benefit was introduced it was universal and as previously stated, was always paid to the mother so that she had some money for her children if her wage earning husband gave her nothing- she would traditionally have been a stay at home mother. Having money for her children meant being able to feed and clothe them, not to have a little bonus to save it up for something, be it a holiday or university or anything really (the fact that you can save it surely means that you don't need it)

 

Over the years it has lost its meaning as more and more mothers work, salaries are generally better and the days are gone when a man gave his wife a weekly allowance and that was all she had. My children are grown now but I did feel very guilty receiving child benefit as I didn't need it (and I think the word need here is very important as we have largely forgotten what to need is - we need to eat and to have clothes to wear, we don't need to send our children to clubs or take them on expensive holidays)

 

Our expectations of a certain standard of life have changed and I have been reading a lot of comments in the press from mothers who say they won't be able to manage when they lose their child benefit. However, they can still afford to go on holiday, pay for satellite TV etc etc so there is no real need for the benefit, only a desire.

 

I do think however that it is not right that a couple earning £80K will still get it when a single wage earner over the threshold won't. On the other hand 2 people earning need to pay for child care and they are paying a lot more tax between them? Just a thought.

[BarbaraJ]

I agree with most people here and believe those who save, use for treats etc don't need CB. Now we wouldn't really need it but would still get it, when my kids were small it was for school clothes/shoes other essentials. When my kids were teens i got cross at parents who gave it to their kids for pocket money and mine moaned we didn't. That was never what it was intended for. I don't feel entitled to anything unless i have paid into it like our health service or NEED it to pay to live. Why should money br given because we choose to have children unless there is a need there? just money wasted i feel that could be better spent elsewhere.

Where you live isn't really important either as i apparently live in a 'deprived' area of my town but with well off town house prices because we are on a direct train line to london. So our council tax / private rents etc is that of high earner areas. A lot of work shirkers here so am looking forward to the benifit decreases for those who choose not to work.

[Tiggy]

I agree that it needs to be changed but this seems very unfair, I dont think they have thought it through. Households earning a lot can afford to go without child benifits but it should be based upon total household income. So I think the amount of benefit should be raised for people on low incomes & the point at which it is stopped should be much higher to £60k+, its outrageous that people earning as much as footballers & politicians & most doctors can claim child benefit. This really does hit middle income families who are bearing the brunt of the tax & pensions system as it is

[Happy chickens!]

It's a tough one this one isn't it as it's the only benefit that's paid directly to mothers for their children so it's highly emotive. However if you were starting from scratch today, there is no way that you would create a benefit like this one so I do think it has to change, but it needs to be managed sensitively; if they want to prove that they promote stable families it would be an ideal time to introduce a rule about total household income as others have said, or it's too unfair on those with only one income.

[Griffin]

I believe the married persons tax allowance will be coming back therefore some of the people losing Child Benefit will be able to claw some of it back that way. The new rules regarding CB are not being brought in until 2013 anyway so there is plenty of time to get used to the idea.

[Tiggy]

I dont wish to upset anyone but I also think that free bus passes to pensioners should not be automatic either & that you apply if you cannot drive or stop driving, I know plenty who never use them because they are driving, likewise winter fuel allowance for pensioners who are still earning plenty - Im not talking about those on a basic state pension alone here they need all the help they can get - but those with good pensions, & other incomes too

[Seagazer]

I also agree with most here in that the current system needs to be changed so that its not automatically given to everyone.

[chickencam]

I feel heartened by reading this thread. I too feel that despite having 3 children and a self employed husband who most of the time is a higher rate tax payer, but in the last 2 years, he hasn't been able to take the money from the business, that the current system is too expensive to keep. I also agree with the comment on bus passes for pensioners. My inlaws use theirs a lot but they don't need it.

 

I do however think that they are going to have to tinker with this proposal to make it fair.

 

I don't agree that parents should both be working once their child starts school. I feel strongly that a child needs a parent at home when they finish school and a parent who can easily take time off to be with them if they are ill.

[Looney]

I agree that not everyone should get Child Benefit regardless of earnings. The extortionate cost of childcare paid by working parents needs to be considered though. Neither OH or I earn anywhere near £44k and the child benefit is an absolute blessing - childcare costs us £600 per month for three days per week

 

As for tax allowance for married couples....don't get me started on that one !

[Rhapsody]

I think the problem is that the Welfare System comes from a bygone era but no party has had the political cojones to do anything to update it; now that the country is in deep debt Welfare is exposed as the unaffordable dinosaur that we are all compelled to feed.

[WarrensWorld]

Welfare is exposed as the unaffordable dinosaur that we are all compelled to feed.

I cannot believe you said that! I've worked all my life and have never begrudged having my taxes spent on people who have children. Eileen and myself have never wanted children by choice, but having my great great Grandmother dying destitute in Stepney Union Workhouse (husband died in an accident in the docks) I thank God for the welfare state.

Perhaps you would feel happier living in the USA or a sub saharan country, or perhaps a Rio favela no welfare there.

I think this thread has gone political, so I'll hold my "peace", before I receive a slap on the wrist.

[greyhoundgirl]

Welfare is exposed as the unaffordable dinosaur that we are all compelled to feed.

I cannot believe you said that! I've worked all my life and have never begrudged having my taxes spent on people who have children. Eileen and myself have never wanted children by choice, but having my great great Grandmother dying destitute in Stepney Union Workhouse (husband died in an accident in the docks) I thank God for the welfare state.

Perhaps you would feel happier living in the USA or a sub saharan country, or perhaps a Rio favela no welfare there.

I think this thread has gone political, so I'll hold my "peace", before I receive a slap on the wrist.

 

Totally agree, shall we take away the FREE doctors, hospitals, teachers (of which I am one) etc etc??? I pay my taxes and CB really helps me plan for the future. I (and my children) go without now so that my children can go to University; as we now have to pay through the nose for that.

I made my own baby food, used washable nappies and saved that way. I didn't squander it on our throw- away society mentality.

I claim nothing else and I truely think that I am entitled to CB. After all every penny I earn is taxed, even pensions are taxed when you have already paid once on it.

 

Rant over.

[Janty]

I grew up in a New Town where the normal aspiration for a comfortable future for a girl was to pop out as many unrelated urchins as you could so that gradually you could get a better and better house...and of course more money. ALL my friends on the estate had babies before they were 16 and all have bigger houses than I have on private estates paid for by you and me. They all have cars that are less than three years old because if your children cough in the wrong direction, there are 'help centres' that can help you claim disability benefit for each of them. None of them have done a days work in their lives so none of them have paid into the system. They all know their rights though.

 

The benefits system does need changing and I know where I'd start. Some people might say that it's the children that would suffer but these children are suffering now. The money isn't being spent on them. It's being spent on alcohol, cigarettes, going out, etc.

 

In contrast, my Dad was made redundant and because he paid into the system all his life, we lost our house and had very little money to live on. The system isn't fair and it makes me angry.

[Space Chick]

I grew up in a New Town where the normal aspiration for a comfortable future for a girl was to pop out as many unrelated urchins as you could so that gradually you could get a better and better house...and of course more money. ALL my friends on the estate had babies before they were 16 and all have bigger houses than I have on private estates paid for by you and me. They all have cars that are less than three years old because if your children cough in the wrong direction, there are 'help centres' that can help you claim disability benefit for each of them. None of them have done a days work in their lives so none of them have paid into the system. They all know their rights though.

 

The benefits system does need changing and I know where I'd start. Some people might say that it's the children that would suffer but these children are suffering now. The money isn't being spent on them. It's being spent on alcohol, cigarettes, going out, etc.

 

In contrast, my Dad was made redundant and because he paid into the system all his life, we lost our house and had very little money to live on. The system isn't fair and it makes me angry.

 

 

My Dad was made redundant when I was a teenager, my own approach to many things is based on my experiences from when that happened. He found a job virtually immediately but at a huge pay cut, my parents got ridiculously into debt just to keep a roof over our heads, and had nothing out of the system, whereas my friends with parents on benefits had the best and newest trainers etc etc etc whereas I had a babysitting round and cleaned cars so my parents wouldn't have to give me and my sister pocket money.

 

The system makes me sick at times.

[WarrensWorld]

The system makes me sick at times.

But at least you have the NHS to cure you.