Cranberry Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 my favorite hen is ill. She has been unwell for a week. Her sister was egg bound a few months ago and I have a suspision its what is wrong with Stripes. She has stopped eating now and is not steady on her feet. What I am worried about is that she is in pain. If this is fatal and she is in pain I should kill her. Anyone got any ideas? I will try anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan08 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I don't have any ideas but sympathise with your dilemma. Before I got the girls I was of the opinion that I was not going to run up huge vet bills and would dispatch in the event of any needing to be put out of their misery. Failed miserably, and have had a few trips to the vet. Also know that I really need to learn how to pts but worried that I would be inefficient and cause more harm than good. It is an awful situation and it is so difficult to decide what to do for the best, If you feel she is suffering it may be worth a quick visit to the vet to double check your diagnosis. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Your biggest priority is to ensure that she is not suffering. Either get her to a vet as soon as you are able, or despatch her. If you are not competent at despatching you risk causing further suffering, so need to find someone else to do it for you. Either way, you cannot let her carry on as she is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 If she is not a young hen and you think she's unlikely to recover, then humanely culling her may be the best option, provided you know how to do it. If not, then you need to take her to the vet in any case. I have no idea what may be the problem, but it would be best not to leave her as she is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranberry Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 She is a young hen she has only been laying for about 6 weeks. I think i will kill her tomorrow. I keep telling myself not to have favorites as they are always the ones to die. But she is/was such a fun bird. Always came running over to talk to me rather than feed. Sat on my shoulder as I walked round the pen. Shes BJ's favorite as well. I'm very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 If she has been ill for over a week, then I would suggest that you either take her to a vet, or cull her yourself, but only if you know what you are doing, or you have access to someone who can help you out. It is humane only if done efficiently and speedily. As others have said, what wouldn't be an option is to do nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyhole kate Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I am going to stick my neck out and say if she were mine I would take her to the vets as she is so young. Different if she were older and less likely to respond to treatment then I would consider despatching her but given her age she stands every chance of recovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia W Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I'd go for the vet option as she is so young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uma Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Personally I'd go for the vet option every time, regardless of age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daphne Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Well if she is egg bound then there would have been a good chance either you or a vet could have encouraged the egg to pass or removed the egg if action had been taken quickly. However, if she has been like this for a week then I'm not sure if its possible. I presume you know, having already lost one bird, that it is not going to get better of its own accord and some intervention is needed. Which means you should not have left it this long and you need to take steps to cull (if you know how to do it properly) or have the bird seen by a vet NOW. The other scenario is that something else is wrong with her, but not eating and being unsteady on her feet are quite generic symptoms. Without more information it is impossible to hazard a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranberry Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Well she's dead. She was not egg bound and I could not see any reason for her decline. I'm really sad. I took her little body up the hill and gave her to the red kites. Feeding time is not the same without her. Its all very well being so angree with me but I did ask for advice on here when she first got sick and non of you offered any. The hard fact of my life is that there simply isn't the funds for vet trips for chickens thats why I asked for advice on here because I was so fond of this bird I didnt just kill her straight away. so thanks for your support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BizzyMomma Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 So very sorry to hear this...... {{{HUGS}}}................ would have offered advice if I had had the knowledge, but didn't so couldn't if that makes sense??? Thinking of you right now sweetheart xxxxxxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mum Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Well she's dead. She was not egg bound and I could not see any reason for her decline. I'm really sad. I took her little body up the hill and gave her to the red kites. Feeding time is not the same without her. Its all very well being so angree with me but I did ask for advice on here when she first got sick and non of you offered any. The hard fact of my life is that there simply isn't the funds for vet trips for chickens thats why I asked for advice on here because I was so fond of this bird I didnt just kill her straight away. so thanks for your support. Oh I am so, so sorry ((hugs)) Totally understand about the funds for vets trips, so no anger/critisism from me and I do remember your post asking about your girl; I couldn't answer that one because I really had no suggestions to offer. Chickens are such delicate things and its not always obvious why they decline. I'm also sorry you feel support was lacking when you needed it most; I suppose that's a reminder for me to acknowledge reading a post even if I have no constructive advice to offer. ((hugs)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uma Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I am so very sorry that she has died, it is never ever easy. I am sorry you feel a lack of support, I never saw your previous thread, but I suspect without seeing the hen many people wouldn't be able to advise all that much. Sticking my neck out here...but I sort of feel that if vet trips cannot be afforded then perhaps animals should not be kept. I don't meant to make you feel bad at all, but animals are meant to have their basic needs met and care when ill including vet attention is included in this. Again, I am very sorry for your loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ain't Nobody Here Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I'm very sorry that you lost your hen . I would like to say though, that people did try to offer advice but it can be very hard to diagnose what's wrong from a description. That's why most people were suggesting visiting a vet, which I know isn't always a viable option for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 No-one is angry with you. Why would you think that? I have just re-read your original post clickand you don't seem to ask for advice in it at all, apart from asking about tonics, but have just generally chatted about the various calamities you have experienced. We all go though rough patches. I had one myself yesterday when I found my lovely Light Sussex hybrid, Cobweb, who must have prolapsed, being eaten alive by her best friend. I wasted no time in despatching her. The Five Freedoms dictate that any animal in distress should receive immediate treatment or be humanely despatched. Leaving an animal which is clearly ill for a week simply isn't an option. Several of us gave you sound advice in this thread, and it was all very much along the same lines, so I think it a little unfair that the sad situation that you find yourself in should be blamed on forum members, although I realise that you are upset. I would get someone to teach you how to humanely cull a hen, so that if you are faced with such a dilemma in future, you will know what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I too have lots of animals and birds and my vets bills for last year probably ran in to several hundred pounds - unfortunately its just part of the costs of running a smallholding. I'm not sure how long you have had your smallholding but would perhaps suggest that some courses in animal and bird illnesses and first aid would be an idea maybe? Its lovely to live the good life but the reality of it is that its expensive so if you are only going to involve a vet for major things then you need to have some condfidence to act swiftly and decide whether to treat or cull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mum Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 ... Sticking my neck out here...but I sort of feel that if vet trips cannot be afforded then perhaps animals should not be kept. I don't meant to make you feel bad at all, but animals are meant to have their basic needs met and care when ill including vet attention is included in this May we agree to disagree on this point? I do agree that basic needs must be met and I totally agree that no animal should have to endure any unnecessary suffering. While the growth in keeping chickens has been quite staggering in recent years, chicken keeping used to be "the norm" in this country and people did not, as a matter of course, take their chooks to the vets! Vets were a luxury and money saved towards vets were for those animals of a greater investment - cows, goats etc. (My grandfather kept a cow, yes, one solitary one). I have pedigree cats and for them having pet insurance is a viable option and worth the investment. A consultation with a vet can cost more than the outlay of a chicken. It does not make viable economic sense. However, by that same token, I think anyone who chooses to keep chickens should, at the very least, have the know how to humanely cull them - or, know someone who can. I believe that those of us who do choose to visit a vet are doing so according to our circumstances; but I also believe in peoples right to choose whether that is a viable option or not; just so long as the animal is not suffering unnecessarily. You cannot get pet insurance for chickens and the majority of vets are not experienced in treating them either - that sort of tells its own story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uma Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Mum- Yes I agree with you with regards to the animal should not be left to suffer. However, if it is something simple which a dose of an antibiotic may actually treat and clear up, then I don't think its in the interest of the animal to be culled just because it sick? And just because the outlay of taking the animal to the vet would be more than the animal cost. I understand that this is a way that a lot of people feel, but personally this saddens me. Again, yes, its personal opinion but I think there should at least be some attempt to find a solution to a health problem rather than just automatically culling (not saying this happened in this case, I am talking more generally about this point). Uma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mum Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Mum- Yes I agree with you with regards to the animal should not be left to suffer. However, if it is something simple which a dose of an antibiotic may actually treat and clear up, then I don't think its in the interest of the animal to be culled just because it sick? And just because the outlay of taking the animal to the vet would be more than the animal cost. I understand that this is a way that a lot of people feel, but personally this saddens me. Again, yes, its personal opinion but I think there should at least be some attempt to find a solution to a health problem rather than just automatically culling (not saying this happened in this case, I am talking more generally about this point). Uma I think, fundamentally, you and I are in agreement overall. However, in this particular case I think "perception" is at the root of the situation. For example, the OP had posted a former thread and believed that the first paragraph highlighter her plight - she believed she was clear in asking for advice and continued the post to express how her day/time had been spent. It was perceived as a thread about "the good life". No relevant advice was given. It happens! Second point: we have two kinds of chicken keepers (ok there is a 3rd and indeed a 4th kind; but we'll leave that for another discussion); utility birds and pets. Utility birds are just that; "pets" has a completely different connotation and by definition can evoke differing emotions, opinions and ethics. Third point: The OP *did* endeavour "some attempt" for a solution to the chook's health problem which, from the perception of readers went unheard (many conversations are misunderstood even in real life ) then posted a second thread in an attempt to find a solution/knowledge/advice - indeed, Omlet forums promote that form of information sharing (sans vets) by having a "Chicken Clinic" forum. Fourth point: even with vetenary intervention of anti-b's, there is no guarantee that would have solved this particular case; so it's completely hypothetical; and if cash is strapped (who isn't in a recession?) then it could be viewed as throwing good money down the drain. It's a judgement call after all. The OP didn't see "sick chick must cull"; the OP saw chook not herself, any advice? Due to perception of the original post, none was forthcoming and the second thread materialised simply because the OP cared enough and was desperate enough to seek more clarity. So, no "automatic" culling, because attempts were made to find suggestions/answers. I will be frank: there was a particular response which, in my opinion, was neither understanding or helpful but boarded a "holier-than-thou-patronising" approach. So much so, I was going to respond to it. Fortunately (or not - depending on perception ) it was a post I would have responded to, had my computer not frozen. I adore this community for the "support" value; be that marital, personal health, chicken advice or how to deal with a sick chook all the way through to the cull/sudden death syndrome posts. I particularly appreciate the opinions which differ from my own because they either broaden my views or, have the potential to make me reinforce my own ethos. Overall, posts are able to be discussed/debated/expressed with a friendly overtone, no offense caused - or if inadvertantly caused, are soon rectified. This thread has given both sage advice/earthly wisdom/differing opinions - but one post in particular could well have been misconstrued (it was by me, and possibly the OP!). Ultimately, I held admiration for the OP in the disposal of her chook - she offered it back to nature to continue the cycle of life, thus benefitting wildlife. Had a vet been involved in the PTS scenario, then rules, policy, regulations would have dictated a different scenario. To me that says the OP has nature and the natural cycle of life very firmly ingrained in those choices. No, she could not afford a vet, she asked Omletteers for advice (not judgement); no advice was forthcoming or timely, most referred her to a vet she could not afford. Not being able to afford a vet does not mean her chooks do not have a good life if you compare the battery hen scenario Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millie-Annie Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I completely applaud you mum and agree wholeheartedly. When I had my first 3 ex-batts I fell totally in love with them and spend a fortune at the vets. I panicked as soon as they looked off colour, they lived about 2 years. Blossom died when I was on holiday and I was heartbroken, Annie died of peritonitis, a day after I spent £35 at the vets and Millicent died the battery hen death as I have come to call it. She got thinner, quieter and although still eating it was obvious her 'batteries" were wearing out. I then had the next three evil little devils and found it hard to get attached. Lyla developed peritonitis, I knew the signs I knew she would die, so I kept her happy, and as long as she could enjoy the sun, eat her grub and potter about I decided to leave well alone, unfortunately evil Veronica had other ideas and just kept attacking her so I had Lyla put to sleep. Veronica and Renee died the battery hen death. I now have four more ex-batts. I also have Tallulah my White Star who I rescued from next door as he was going to wring her neck as she had stopped laying and his chickens are utility chickens and of course I have the wonderful Marigold, my Suffolk Noir. As far as I am concerned, my ex-batts and Tallulah are with me because death was the alternative. They are happy, I look after them, I make sure they have a good life and that is that. Tallulah is almost 5 so has had a long life and has seemed to be on her last legs before but perked up. I would not rush to the vets with any of them, my neighbour can cull chickens if I felt they needed immediate peace. Peritonitis is the curse of the ex-batt and they can live happy enough lives until the end, and other than that they seem to run out of steam and lay down and die. I would take Marigold to the vets, I would spend money on her. She is a complete pet and I adore her, but she is the only one. So I suppose I am saying we all do our best for our animals, but there comes a point when common sense has to take priority over sentiment, especially in the old chicken and ex-batt world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyhas3chucks Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 isn't that just what we do with our old people in homes? I wish someone to put me peacefully to sleep when I get like this and treat all my pets as I would hope to be treated. I rather thought that the animal welfare act covered this anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I've often said that I hope I have as dignified and peaceful passing as has been afforded to some of my animals, be it by my own hand or the vet. This subject comes up on here at least twice a year and (as with anything else) there's always discussing and differing views - that's what's wonderful about this forum; we can all advise and offer opinions so that folks asking questions can take their choice from the 'pot'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mum Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 isn't that just what we do with our old people in homes? I wish someone to put me peacefully to sleep when I get like this and treat all my pets as I would hope to be treated. I rather thought that the animal welfare act covered this anyway. No darling, sadly not. When "old people" are put in homes, it is because those who could/should care are of the belief that they cannot. This is a reminder that we live in a very individualistic society without the values of religion to back up our moral arguments. To be put to sleep when you reach that stage is the euthanasia argument and is very contentious. Chickens, rightly or wrongly, depending on your perception, are not an endangered species. While there is an argument for pure breeds, does the same hold true for hybrids? Ex-batts? That is very subjective; as is the issue of vets vs culling; as is the chook as a pet vs utility animal; as is the issue of a forum which promotes a chicken clinic for self-diagnosis vs vetenary experptise The very bottom line of the argument lies in nothing more, or less, than a simple one of "Good Husbandry"! Now, for those who understand what that phrase means, it is good for their livestock; for those who do not fully appreciate what that phrase means is the road to contention, dispute and self-opinionated views. Good husbandry is about giving your hens the environment they deserve/are entitled to. It is about not permitting an animal to suffer unduly. It is about giving your livestock (and that is what hens are, livestock ) the conditions they deserve and require for their species: food, water, shelter, cleanliness. Good husbandry does not mean you bankrupt yourself to preserve one hens life Now, in all fairness, that is subjective and down to the individual to determine - it is not for people on here to judge. The OP has not returned since s/he culled her poorly hen. I find that quite saddening - I can't help feeling we, as a collective, let them down somehow. I thought we were a supportive group - which includes supporting people who care as much about our animals as we do, but who may have a slightly differing point of view to our own in how that unfolds in terms of financial boundaries/values/country living vs backyard sentimentality. I am curious to understand which "animal welfare" act relates to a hen who is displaying the OP's symptoms? Does animal welfare equate to hens not displaying abnormal symptoms? Does animal welfare equate to a person who asks for advice but does not recieve anything concrete? In which case, is that the error of the poster, or the error of the responses, or should the poster be deterred from posting and asking for advice? If a hen displays concerning symptoms, should they be automatically culled on the basis of "no suffering permitted"? Or, should there be a window of opportunity which allows a hen keeper to monitor progress/regression? If so, how long should that be? What of those hens who go to bed, looking healthy and "normal" but, come morning are nothing more than a corpse? Should animal welfare be involved in a species which is reknown for it's "delicacy"? Which is worse? The poster who asks for advice (twice!) and doesn't recieve anything further than "go to a vet!" which they cannot afford - or they would have done so!? - or, the hen keeper who neither seeks forum support or vetenary advice and leaves their girls in blissful ignorance? I would far rather someone post on here asking for advice (in lieu of a vet!!) than someone who does diddly squat!! I would far rather hear a story whereby the carcass was fed back to the wild to support nature than a post which states, went-to-vet-PTS-walked-away-sanitised. Sanitisation in that context simply means satisfying the *human* element of sadness/guilt/shame. Am I a heartless hen keeper - ask my boys they know me best. Am I a "judgemental" hen keeper - read my posts My heart does out go to the OP and the responses she received and which prompted her to no longer log in. People who argue the rights of animals and yet are so dismissive of human frailties give me more cause for concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Are you sure that the OP is upset? Perhaps she's just busy elsewhere and not go around to logging on... you may be reading more into this than is there Mum. I find that this forum is generally self-moderating; if folks aren't too happy about a post or opinion, they either speak up, ask a moderator to intervene, or - as is often the best action - ignore it As a past moderator myself, I found that the people of the forum were made of pretty stern stuff and found no need for undignified on-forum squabbling. 'Tis a wonderful place... Omlet-world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
