Solitary chicken - need advice

[Leicester_H]

Hi

 

Asda has had a lot of publicity recently claiming " to be the first major UK retailer to sell “free range” milk – from cows that have been kept outside for at least six months of the year"

 

I have been buying Organic milk (from Sainsbury's). Organic milks website claims (http://www.organicmilk.co.uk/997/) "They spend most of their time roaming, eating and dozing outdoors, and only come in when the weather’s bad."

 

If they spend MOST of their time .... then how is Asda's milk better ?

 

H

[Daphne]

I also wondered this, but I thought perhaps Asda's is the first non-organic type of milk with guaranteed outdoor living?

[Valkyrie]

Rather disturbing!

 

I know during awful winters the farmers will house the cows so that the land doesn't get ruined - doesn't take long to churn up a field! When it dries then the deep footprints could cause a broken leg. I get organic too.

[soapdragon]

I have bought organic milk for eons....partly because I try to buy organic wherever possible because of the chemical use (not!) and partly because I have heard its far higher in something or other which is to do with the clover in the organically farmed meadows. Hope that makes sense - one of you bright sparks will know what I mean

[percy049]

I too buy organic milk

In the Waitrose magazine, they said they don't advertise their milk as free range because 'there is no legal definition of what free range dairy means [so] it might be seen as misleading to label milk as such'.

Also as said cows don't spend all year outside as in winter the weather isn't nice enough for them

[Leicester_H]

In the Waitrose magazine, they said they don't advertise their milk as free range because 'there is no legal definition of what free range dairy means [so] it might be seen as misleading to label milk as such'.Also as said cows don't spend all year outside as in winter the weather isn't nice enough for them

 

Yes - that's basically what the website I referenced above said.

 

So if "They spend most of their time roaming, eating and dozing outdoors, and only come in when the weather’s bad" - that's about as good as it gets, isn't it ? (except for super sturdy cows which live out all the time - but I guess they're not good milkers ??)

 

H

[sjp]

Hi

 

Asda has had a lot of publicity recently claiming " to be the first major UK retailer to sell “free range” milk – from cows that have been kept outside for at least six months of the year"

 

I have been buying Organic milk (from Sainsbury's). Organic milks website claims (http://www.organicmilk.co.uk/997/) "They spend most of their time roaming, eating and dozing outdoors, and only come in when the weather’s bad."

 

If they spend MOST of their time .... then how is Asda's milk better ?

 

H

your not technically comparing like for like

I'm assuming that the 'free range' cows still get the same feed as the rest of the non organic herd it's just that they get the chance to spend more time outside as apposed to staying in cattle sheds/barns most of/all the time

dose the blerb say outside or in fields? like free range poultry only have to have access the the outside

[mullethunter]

All it says on the soil association is that to be organic the cows mustn't spend ALL their lives indoors. The blurb says they spend 'most' of their time outside, but that doesn't actually mean anything.

 

I don't suppose 'free range' means much in this context either.

 

I drink local milk because I know most dairy cows round here are out in the summer and I don't have an issue with them being housed in the winter.

[Lewis]

Free Range isn't something I've ever heard used in relation to dairy cows.

As people have said, most (if not all) are housed over the winter when grass isn't growing and as it's more comfortable for the cows and farmers. Fields get churned up really quickly, especially around parlours and animals can slip when it's icy.

 

Used to love Rachel's Organic milk in Aber and we buy organic milk at home but in Slovakia (and other parts of Europe) it's common for animals to be housed all year round in big loose sheds with some cubicles. It's not that they don't have the land or pasture, I'm not really sure why they aren't turned out.

I'd probably argue it's more work to tend to housed cattle as they have to be fed a lot more and housing has to be kept cleaner to prevent mastitis but that's the way they do it!

[soapdragon]

Hmmmm, I suspect that this 'free range milk' is something of a marketing gimmick.....or am I just being cynical

[sjp]

the excuse will be that it's 'better' for the live stock to be indoors in a controlled environment with a balanced feed ration. but basically it's cheaper to house them all year as it's less man hours dependent as all the stock is in one area so daily checks can be do quicker. there's no ware and tare on the pasture form over grazing and no nitrate or nitrite (can never remember with one ) over load and above all the stock doesn't need to be moved to fresh grass every few days. and rounded up twice a day for milking just moved from one end of the yard to the other which after a while they probably do themselves anyway. plus modern cows aren't as hardy as the older traditional breeds

[sjp]

Hmmmm, I suspect that this 'free range milk' is something of a marketing gimmick.....or am I just being cynical

cynical and proud here

[mullethunter]

Hmmmm, I suspect that this 'free range milk' is something of a marketing gimmick.....or am I just being cynical

 

I think you're spot on

[Cat tails]

It's not that they don't have the land or pasture, I'm not really sure why they aren't turned out.

I'd probably argue it's more work to tend to housed cattle as they have to be fed a lot more and housing has to be kept cleaner to prevent mastitis but that's the way they do it!

 

They produce more milk when they are kept indoors compared to "free range"... which I find an odd term... I invisioned someone trying to milk a chicken...

 

In the Netherlands (we love our milk) it's is called "pasture milk". We've had that term for years! Most dairy brands say that those cows spend at least 6 months outdoors.

 

Over here the turning out of the cows is an actual event on many farms, with people coming to see the first time cows go back to the land.

[Leicester_H]

your not technically comparing like for like

Yes - sorry - I was concentrating on the animal welfare arguments.

 

Asda's website says "Our new Free Range Milk comes with Pasture Promise guarantee. We’ve become the first major UK retailer to sell Free Range Milk – from farms where it’s guaranteed the dairy cows have grazed outdoors for at least six months of the year."

 

The Pasture Promise guarantee seems to be "that cows have the freedom to graze on pasture for at least six months of the year"

 

which, to me, is no better, on animal welfare grounds than Organic Milk which claims "They spend most of their time roaming, eating and dozing outdoors, and only come in when the weather’s bad." MOST implies more than half, ie 6 months(at least) - same as Asda.

 

So, a move in the right direction but possibly more of a marketing gimmick ?

 

So Organic would, from what I can discover, be the same on animal welfare grounds but better from the 'chemical' point of view - so a 'better' choice ?

 

H

[Cat tails]

Not sure what you mean by "chemical"... Water is a "chemical" too, but I see no one avoiding that... (sorry to stand on my chemistry teacher soapbox there...)

 

I find the claim "most days" more dubious than 6 months to be honest. You might understand that most is at least more than half. But since almost all cows come in for the night and that makes up for about 1/3 of their day, according to your logic, they should spend more than six months outside. Which weather wise, I don't see happening.

As said before, dairy cows aren't a hardy breed.

[percy049]

As people have said, most (if not all) are housed over the winter when grass isn't growing and as it's more comfortable for the cows and farmers.

 

At the care farm I used to help out at we had cattle only staying there over winter in a barn