Happy chickens! Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 In the papers today http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/6169054/Parents-who-ferry-children-must-have-anti-paedophile-checks.html Is it just me or does this seem crazy? Yes, of course we must protect our children, but does asking volunteers to fill in forms do this? I don't really trust the accuracy of the database they use either. I am sure I have read elsewhere that there is no greater theat to our children today than there was 30 years ago. How are we supposed to make sensible judgements as parents anymore? I help run a local sports club and we already ask team managers to self-declare that they have nothing dodgy in their past (if they have been known to the club a long time, if not then we do get a crb) but to have to take it to these levels is extreme. Ok, will get down off soapbox! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chook n Boo Mum Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 It's hard enough getting people to volunteer already without getting them all checked as well..........I can't see our Cubs parents being overly impressed Sha x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ness3103 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 i'm a parent and have helped out in class. i have had a crb check done because i wanted to volunteer on a more permanant basis, unfortunately the school just don't seem to need me i must admit i feel happier knowing that the staff are checked because in today's society you can't trust everyone. i have also been in situations where i've been alone in the class with the children or in the library listening to a child read. i feel the checks protect both the adult and the child. as for putting volunteers off, i don't think it would make much of a difference and if they've nothing to hide, there's not a problem if its for the children's safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chook n Boo Mum Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 as for putting volunteers off, i don't think it would make much of a difference No I think you are right, it won't make any difference...."Ooops, word censored!"ody volunteers in our group anyway...should be renamed Creche or Childminding service Sha x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C&T Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Finding volunteers is very difficult - and this kind of paperwork doesn't help - people think you don't trust them, therefore why should they help you? Or (in the case of our scout district) the paperwork would take weeks/months to process, and by that time the once keen helper has got bored and moved on... It's a shame that in so many places "community" doesn't really exist - where once you knew everyone, now everyone keeps to themselves, and I guess this type of scheme is the result of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy chickens! Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 I don't know if it puts people off volunteering too much, but it does put off the volunteers who organise the volunteers - you have to waste hours chasing people that you have known for year usually to fill in forms that sit in files until inspected to proove you are providing a safe environment. There is nothing more important to me that the safety of the children, I just think this is one step too far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurpleTree Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I thought anyone who worked in a school or with children already got CRB checked. My dad is a Church Warden and he also teaches people to ring the bells, which means he's sometimes alone with children, he's had to have a CRB check. I've started doing voluntary work at the museum and I've been checked out too, as I'm talking to the general public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A chickychickychick-ENN!! Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 The checks only matter if you've been caught for it. Far more people get away with it because they are clever, and they will be cleared by the system. The evidence is that when abuse takes place, it is, in the vast majority of cases, by a family member. Why groom other people's when you've got your own? Are you going to be caught? Probably not. It's disgusting, but it's the truth. We only have these checks to appease those publically verbally incensed by the Sarah Payne and Soham cases. As horrific as those events were, they are very, very rare and I do not believe that CRB knee-jerk legislation realistically does anything other than APPEAR to be The Right Thing To Do to appease the Sun/Mail reading masses. EDIT: I've written to my MP. Write to your MPs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C&T Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I thought anyone who worked in a school or with children already got CRB checked. My dad is a Church Warden and he also teaches people to ring the bells, which means he's sometimes alone with children, he's had to have a CRB check. I've started doing voluntary work at the museum and I've been checked out too, as I'm talking to the general public. You are right, but this goes a step further, and if you take your childrens friends in your car to give them a lift to an activity, then you will need to be CRB checked - at least that is how I read it. We always encourage car sharing to go to big events for Scouts - not just because less cars on the road is a greener thing to do, but made traffic handling much easier, and less congestion and impact on the surrounding roads and area! Ho hum. More paperwork... And end of the day, if someone wants to do something, they will - but there are very few people out there who want to cause harm - and as others have said, the vast majority of these cases are within family circles. Off my stand again now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ain't Nobody Here Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 It seems like unnecessary paperwork which won't actually "catch" those who are likely to offend. Thomas Hamilton (Dunblane) was a Scout master - would he have had a check done in those days? Finding volunteers is very difficult /quote] I found out today that the Scout Post (which I used to organise for my local group) has folded totally in Edinburgh due to lack of adult volunteers . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C&T Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 It seems like unnecessary paperwork which won't actually "catch" those who are likely to offend. Thomas Hamilton (Dunblane) was a Scout master - would he have had a check done in those days? Scout Assoc chucked him prior to horrific events in Dunblane - I believe based on concerns raised about him. Nothing to do with a CRB check - which I guess would have been clean, as I believe no prior convictions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoid Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I personally dont see what the problem is, if you have nothing to hide, then you will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janty Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Obviously, I have been police checked several times due to being a teacher...I have no problem with this as it's part of my job. I have to say though that when I was attacked several years ago, I tried to press charges. My attacker (knowing that I was a teacher) tried to press charges against me as he had broken his thumb whilst punching me. The police had to take his complaint seriously so I had to drop the complaint as I would have lost my job. Some aspects of our law are just not fair. Regarding these latest proposals, it will make lift sharing for sports clubs impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygerna Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 The most stupid thing about it is that its only 'formal' arrangements, so presumably, if the parents meet up in the carpark, realise they live near each other and agree to take it in turns, thats in-formal, but, if a parent sends a note to the club, saying I live in XXXXXX and will happily car share then that become 'formal'. I know why the Government think they are doing this, but, in reality what IS the point? Anyone who wants to harm a child will simply do things 'informally' thus avoiding having to register, whilst others, who pose no threat to children will be put off. Its a shambolic joke that is costing an obscene amount of money to organise and run and yet the reality is it will not stop children being harmed at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjp Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 It seems like unnecessary paperwork which won't actually "catch" those who are likely to offend. Thomas Hamilton (Dunblane) was a Scout master - would he have had a check done in those days? . This and Wolverhampton were the main reasons CRB's were brought in the way I understand it you won't need to be checked to take friends kids to the group only if you take them out for the group which is alright if you only go to one group but if you help more than one in different areas then you'll need to be checked out again CRB's aren't transferable and how are groups going to afford them I've got a CRB for work but if and when we set up a schools plot at the allotments I'll need another one if I want to off any help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 The CRB checks are a pain. I've been trying to get everyone CRB checked at my church for the past three years - the individuals don't mind (one or two are put off - especially when the system loses their paperwork and they have to do it all over again ) but it takes AGES for me! It takes at least 20 minutes to fully complete all the paperwork and get it ready to be sent off. Multiply that by the 50 or so people that currently do voluntary work for the church. People I have known for years i have to scrutinise their forms of identification, confirm their addresses etc. The worst bit is when I am checking people that are nurses or who already work in the local schools and nurseries - we still have to do it again. And will have to repeat it in a few years. As said above, it doesn't stop someone going out the next day and committing a crime. And there are some people that I wouldn't leave my children with no matter how many CRB checks they had! We are in danger of ignoring our innate common sense because a piece of paper says its OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy chickens! Posted September 12, 2009 Author Share Posted September 12, 2009 Snowy - you're so right! Most individuals don't mind having the check done, but it's the people who volunteer to oversee the volunteers. It's so inefficient too. I know some people who have about 5 CRB certs as they do various good works as it were! The extra number of people that have to be checked out now could be mind boggling. Why can't they ask volunteers to sign permission for any criminal activity registered against them to be sent to the organisation they volunteer for; that way you wouldn't have to get the wretched things updated every 3 years either. Janty - what worries me is that some allegations will go down on this new system too, as so often charges are not brought after an initial complaint is made. How on earth are organisations expected to make a judgement call on this: quote from yesterday's Telegraph There is also concern that so-called “soft intelligence” such as unproven allegations will be used in assessments. I imagine that what the boy said to police sounded serious and an outsider reading that could form quite the wrong impression. I hope this is just scaremongering! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 If I was a volunteer then I'd happily register, but if my neighbour calls me to collect her daughter as an emergency I would be breaking the law, fined and have a criminal record. Why should I cough up £60 odd for something that has never been an issue for ordinary good, law abiding folk in the past. If a person is that way inclined I'm sure there would be a way of getting round it and unpleasant things will still happen. What's next I wonder, you have to be registered when leaving the country in case you sit next to someone else's child on a plane, train, ferry? Then even more people will be on the books - it is an invasion of civil liberty. I used to think "if you're OK it's fine, a good idea, you have nothing to worry about etc" but now I am beginning to get very concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoid Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 If I was a volunteer then I'd happily register, but if my neighbour calls me to collect her daughter as an emergency I would be breaking the law No you wouldn't, that is an informal agreement and you are not part of a club or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Thanks Fred - I was rather concerned. In that case carry on everyone - ignore my little rant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 I do think everything is getting a bit too PC! I volunteered to work for the local Donkey Sanctuary during the summer holidays - they needed the volunteers, and it would count as Work Exprience for me, but they said I'd need to be CRB checked because they sometimes have special needs children that come, but it had a 4 week turn around so in the end I couldn't go because there wasn't enough time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A chickychickychick-ENN!! Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 OMLET POWER - WRITE TO YOUR MP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Wasnt it to do with Ian Huntley but again this shows how the differnet areas/specialisms dont talk to each other and that simple solution of National database just doesnt exist(Or does it)??This was one thing that came out was that the information on him wasnt shared as he moved area. Seems mad we all talk to each other on this forum from all over the place but no one else does! This week I have run two of my sons friends to rugby training and throughout cricket season the same! I dont mind being checked but seems its not going to catch the deviants who will be devious if they need to be. Stupid stystem. Its been like it for years and they still havent sorted it out.(20 years ago same situation) bureaucracy..crackers indie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miffy Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 As parents we make judgements all the time, safe food cars etc I am reminded of the obituary to common sense I read some months ago. If a nurse/teacher or other individual has had a CRB check what is the point of another.......its a waste of time resourses and goodwill. I cant get rid of this feeling that we are teaching our children not to trust anyone who doesnt have a piece of paper.......this cant be good for them in their future nor society in general. I do agree that young people are VERY impotant....they need nurtuing and guiding but I am not comfortable with the idea they are taught to be frightened of anyone without government (!) pieces of paper Sorry....rant over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 I agree that those with nothing to hide don't mind being checked but it does take the ability to 'step in and the last moment' to help. This year our scouts were going off to camp and a helper fell ill with swine flu. A parent stepped in to cover them. Without them the camp would have been cancelled. CRB check do give us a false sense of security too, all they do is tell us that someone hasn't got a record = hasn't got caught yet. We do need to use a bit of common sense. The powers that be told me that my son couldn't do work experience with my neighbour until she and the company (vodafone) was checked. She was a director, long time friend and one of his legal guardians. I said that I was happy and as his mother it was my place to decide what was and was not safe for him, they said that it wasn't! They said that it was during school hours so it was not my right. I said that I would log him as sick for that week and send him anyway. The head of the department said that she had had to do the same thing for her daughters work experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
