Unsecure chicken perches

[Lavenders_Blue]

Following on from the Chicken Feathers in Bread thread, this BBC news article is another perfect example of why cooking from scratch is best.

[The Dogmother]

I saw this in the paper this morning; terrible.

[kinsk]

One of the reasons I never buy burgers or sausages from supermarkets, I like to know what's in my food and I just don't trust them. Although if you are spending £1 for 4 burgers, or it might even have been £1 for 8, then really are you expecting them to be full of good things?

[The Dogmother]

Another good reason to either buy local or to make it yourself.

[majorbloodnock]

The ridiculous thing is that I have no particular objection to eating meat horse meat per se. I do, of course, have significant concerns about their treatment before and whilst being slaughtered, but my main concern with this story is the not knowing. If one doesn't know what's in some food, how can one make an informed choice.

 

Personally, I can't remember the last time I bought some hamburgers. I might have done so as a teenager (mumble mumble years ago), but I've certainly never bought any since having a family, and now I'm rather relieved. In truth, my decisions have been as much about the huge difference in flavour as anything else, but it's immensely reassuring that both my children, when tempted by hamburgers, meatballs or anything similar, instinctively assume they or I will make them up from scratch (including the buns, thereby accidentally sidestepping horsemeat and feathers in one fell swoop).

 

As consumers we lean heavily towards organic produce. In some cases, it's because it tastes better, but as often as not it's purely to do with the level of confidence that it only contains what the label says. It's not a guarantee, but far less of a risk than the alternatives. One would have thought it would be a small thing to ask that we can know what we're being fed, but it seems even the most wary of us are going to get stitched up from time to time.

[majorbloodnock]

As an aside, I know this thread is about food, but it seems rather a stretch to put it in a forum called "All Things Nice". I wonder whether we could have another forum called "Bleugh" or "Buyer Beware"....

[Space Chick]

I read that story and this story and it reinforced why I buy all my meat from either the farmers market or my local free range butcher, as I know the provinance and the welfare of my food.

 

I can't get over the anger over it all..... its not rocket science is it! You buy cheap and you ain't gonna get quality!!

 

Particularly the bacteria in chicken story...... ummmm, these chickens are kept in barns, growing at an alarming rate until such a time they are knee deep in their own excrement and can't move..... then people are surprised they are high in bacteria

 

Is it me?!?

[majorbloodnock]

I read that story and this story and it reinforced why I buy all my meat from either the farmers market or my local free range butcher, as I know the provinance and the welfare of my food.

 

I can't get over the anger over it all..... its not rocket science is it! You buy cheap and you ain't gonna get quality!!

 

Particularly the bacteria in chicken story...... ummmm, these chickens are kept in barns, growing at an alarming rate until such a time they are knee deep in their own excrement and can't move..... then people are surprised they are high in bacteria

 

Is it me?!?

I agree totally except for one thing. Sadly, I don't have any confidence that top-dollar products are free of such shenanigans. I'm cynical enough to believe that if a company thinks it can get away with it, it'll charge premium prices for better packaged and marketed rubbish. If we could be sure the extra cost went towards better quality, that'd be fine, but that's not what companies are in business for....

[Olly]

The main reason I wouldn't buy cheap burgers - or sausages - is that you really don't know what's in them. It's very likely to be parts of the animal that you wouldn't touch if you saw them on a butcher's slab ... nothing wrong with that, they are still perfectly edible, but as The Major so rightly says, we want to know WHAT we are eating.

 

As I heard someone say on the radio recently - in relation to the story about food prices rising - we are completely out of touch with the source of the food on our plates these days. Most people have no idea of, and give no thought to, the cost of food production. As anyone who keeps hens, even as egg producers, knows, it would be nigh-on impossible to raise two chickens even for 9 weeks, sell them at £5 and make a profit - so how do Tesco do it? It's not just you, SpaceChick. We (as a country) have got used to expecting to eat meat every day but we don't want to pay for its true value.

[Lavenders_Blue]

As an aside, I know this thread is about food, but it seems rather a stretch to put it in a forum called "All Things Nice". I wonder whether we could have another forum called "Bleugh" or "Buyer Beware"....

 

Funny you should say that Major, I did deliberate over whether this was the right forum for this thread but figured it would probably be moved over here by the mods!

 

I completely agree with all those who say if you buy cheap, you can't expect quality - however, I think you can and should expect to know exactly what is going into the food you buy!

We don't buy much processed meat here (only hubby and I, and I am a veggie), so when we do we buy good quality and a lot is made from scratch. Come BBQ season, hubby is often to be found working up a sweat over packets of mince and the burger press!

[Looney]

Agree. I want to know what's in my food and then I will decide if I want to eat it. And sometimes cheap (ie cheap compared to what would be viewed as a 'quality' brand) doesn't mean poor quality in terms of the ingredients it means alternative, cheaper or less commercially desirable ingredients. *Trying to think of an example* So if I want frozen fish...I could buy cod or haddock or I could buy coley or pollock. So long as I know what I'm buying and it suits my needs then fine. Or if I chose to eat horse rather than beef then so be it.

 

This is aside from the discussion on ethics or how animals are treated as I'm never convinced that price truly reflects welfare.

[Looney]

(As an aside, I really fancy a burger now! Homemade of course! )

[The Dogmother]

The ridiculous thing is that I have no particular objection to eating meat horse meat per se. I do, of course, have significant concerns about their treatment before and whilst being slaughtered, but my main concern with this story is the not knowing. If one doesn't know what's in some food, how can one make an informed choice.

 

Yes, it's the deceit that irks me.

 

I really enjoy making up burgers and meatballs; it's quite satisfying.

[majorbloodnock]

The ridiculous thing is that I have no particular objection to eating meat horse meat per se. I do, of course, have significant concerns about their treatment before and whilst being slaughtered, but my main concern with this story is the not knowing. If one doesn't know what's in some food, how can one make an informed choice.

 

Yes, it's the deceit that irks me.

 

I really enjoy making up burgers and meatballs; it's quite satisfying.

Absolutely. It's the ability to vary according to your tastes that day that really makes it. Which herbs shall I use today? A spoonful of mustard, or do I prefer some horseradish? Shall I mix in an egg or not? Ditto a few breadcrumbs. Do I fancy some cheese in that? Pork? Lamb? Beef?

 

And even then that's ignoring the fact my minced beef from the farm just up the road is organic, measured in food yards (except the single trip to the abbatoir), comes from Hereford cattle treated exceptionally well (and my kids probably walked past them and patted them in the preceding six months or so), and still costs about the same as or less than bog standard Tesco's anonymous ground (alleged) beef. I realise we're hugely lucky to be in this position, but, as has been pointed out, the situation if you buy from a trusted local butcher is not much different. I may be a little lackadaisical at times with what I put in my own mouth, but what I put down my family's throats carries a far greater responsibility.

 

My, my. I'd better dismount my hobby horse before it gets minced.

[The Dogmother]

There's room on this soapbox if you want to join me....

[majorbloodnock]

Incidentally, all the reports mention horse DNA was found in the hamburgers. Nowhere is it stated that the DNA came from horse meat. If you start to mistrust what's been put in, how far should that mistrust go? Ain't that a reassuring thought...... NOT!

[soapdragon]

I have thought for some time that the big supermarkets are duplicitous - you only have to look at some of the labels! 'Freshly churned' means absolutley nothing! Cleaning products always seem to be marked 'dermatalogically tested'....well, yes, we know that because THEY HAVE TO BE BY LAW so don't use it as selling point!

 

The one that always makes me laugh is the statement on much of Tesco packaged 'fresh' meat (mince, chops etc) 'Ideal for use in recipe dishes'.......what on earth is THAT supposed to mean?

 

I totally agree with the postings about cheap meat - we now eat less meat but the best quality that we can and I cannot remember the last time any of us bought a burger.....they are so simple to make after all! Sausages are another minefield - those horrid bright pink processed offal tubes must be FULL of nasties but the law seems to allow such a small amount of meat as a minimum - maybe there should be a tightening up of the law? (As if!!)

 

Can we please order a bigger soapbox!!

[Cinnamon]

I agree about making your own,but some people have no choice but to buy they very cheapest (they are under £1 for 8 burgers,I think) & the very least they can expect from a BEEFburger is for it to be beef

 

I am all for convenience,but I like good quality too.

 

I too like making burgers & meatballs,but I will admit an odd fondness for Walls sausages as they remind me of my childhood & are the only ones that still taste sausagey to me.

I love my local farmers market ones too.

[redhotchick]

The burgers were also found to contain traces of pork ( or pig DNA, not sure exactly how it was phrased).

That would be equally as distasteful to many people.

[majorbloodnock]

I agree about making your own,but some people have no choice but to buy they very cheapest (they are under £1 for 8 burgers,I think) & the very least they can expect from a BEEFburger is for it to be beef

 

I am all for convenience,but I like good quality too.

 

I too like making burgers & meatballs,but I will admit an odd fondness for Walls sausages as they remind me of my childhood & are the only ones that still taste sausagey to me.

I love my local farmers market ones too.

There were three Tesco products apparently affected, one of them being their "value" 8 pack totalling just under 400g. The second was a pack of four quarter pounders and the third was a branded "flame grilled" variation. The only one I've been able to fnd the price for is the quarter pounders, and they were £1.50 per pack, so the "value" pack at £1 for about 60g less weight isn't so different in price.

 

I'm afraid I disagree about people having no choice but the cheapest, much as I may sympathise with lack of money. If I wanted to make our fantastic tasting beef mince go further in some hamburgers, I could happily pack out with some breadcrumbs since there's so much flavour there already. Chopped onions pad it out further, so I reckon I could easily get five or six substantial hamburgers from one pound of mince, therefore being able to rival the Tesco prices in the bottom line price per meal for my family. I realise it's not quite the same convenience, but I suspect the main problem is people have become detached from the knowledge of how food ends up on their plates.

 

Of course, if someone is really so strapped for cash, there are plenty of better, more nutritious, cheaper and more filling ways of feeding someone than a pound's worth of processed meat. I'm lucky that we have enough money to buy the food we want, so I'm not forced to watch pennies in that area. However, I have not always been in that situation, so am not just spouting without prior experience.

 

Convenient, cheap, quality. Pick any two.

[Cinnamon]

I am not so sure. Once you buy mince,onions,seasoning & breadcrumbs,surely it works out to more than a quid for 6/8 burgers?

Even if you buy value mince,which must negate the purpose somewhat.

I truly think that some are so short of money that they cannot afford the raw ingredients,much as they may want to make their own.

 

Personally I would always try to feed my family the best quality that I can afford,bit then I am lucky not to be feeding a large family on very,very little money.

[The Dogmother]

I agree, I learned from my grandparents how to make meat and other food go further; they grew most of their own meat in the war but also relied on rations. As a working single parent, cash is tight but we eat well and eat quality produce, cheaper cuts of meat can be just as delicious if cooked carefully, local venison (which is as cheap as beef when in season) is padded out in casseroles with beans and other veg.

 

As has been said, it's about lack of information and enthusiasm; some folks would rather spend more time sat in front of the TV or on facebook than preparing their family meal.

[craftyhunnypie]

Oh don't get me started!! You'll probably find that those buying the value products will almost definitely have a huge tv & SKy to go with it. Plus a stash of lager & a load of fags! It's not about what they can afford - it's where their flippin' priorities lie! Grrrr!

Surely good food should be top of the list along with how to make it go further.

Emma.x

[majorbloodnock]

Whoa. Can we rewind just a tad, please? I'm certain that picture of mixed-up priorities is demonstrated by plenty of individuals, I don't think I'd want to extrapolate it out any further than that. I rather suspect that for every person fitting that profile, there are several rather less visible ones with a rather more balanced sense of what's important, but without the necessary knowledge/skill/experience/time to find good, cheap ingredients and make something of them. I think it's a step too far to suggest consumers of cheap processed food only do so because they're wasting money elsewhere, although I do agree that I have no time for anyone who pleads poverty whilst including beer, fags, mobile phones and other luxuries in their lifestyles.

[Willow]

The reasons why people go for cheap convenience food are probably many and varied and some are difficult to do much about.

- We're all aware of MRM (mechanically recovered meat) but many are still not and the idea of it had never occurred to me when I was younger. I remember my OH and I ate a lot of breaded Bernard Matthews turkey 'steaks' when we were starting out as they were cheap protein. I wouldn't now but at the time it seemed like cheap, tasty protein. I had worked as a meat wrapper in our local large supermarket as a teen so I was well aware of how mince was adulterated But all the food safety rules give the impression our food is safe

- Making your own food is daunting if you don't have the skills, I learnt to cook from my mother so was quite competent when I left home and as one of a family of 6 was experienced in stews etc. I also felt my home economics lessons were useful (although I was surprised to hear one of my sisters talk about how rubbish they were recently ) My boys get no home economics (or whatever the current equivalent is) at all. It should be taught in all schools and concentrate on the basics.

- It's hard work setting to and making dinner from scratch when you get in from work.I'm not doing shift work and coming in and out at different times. I also work from home which means I can start dinner earlier but in the past when I was office based we'd usually end up sitting our boys down for dinner at 8pm as I couldn't get dinner on the table any earlier. When my boys were young life was too crazy to cook ahead at the w/e.

- Ignorance of nutrition, I think it has got too complicated and all the info on what % of your RDA on packaging gives the impression you are getting what you need. In particular there is still widespread ignorance of the need for roughage

- Cost and ignorance of how the costs work out.

- Advertising...

 

A lot of the answer is to teach nutrition and cooking skills at school in an interesting and practical way.

 

There was a move to insisting all state schools did it but that seems to have quietly been dropped now. My boy's school doesn't have the facilities or even a building that could be converted. They would have to build a new block so I can't see any government investing in that They have only just got a refectory, up until then all the boys had to take a packed lunch and eat it under a set of large patio umbrellas outside (even in the rain and the snow).

 

Anyway I'll get off my soap box now