How can I find my old pictures?

[Charlottechicken]

I think the op said she thought the hen had starved to death, just like she thought the culled one had taken 2 minutes to die. We will never know, and to be fair, I imagine the op feels pretty badly about it as it is. All we do know is that she now wants to take control of the situation if it should arise again.

[KimmyCustard]

You're right Charlottechicken, I thought she had starved to death but I am guessing, the same as I'm guessing it was 2 minutes that the flapping occured, it felt like 2 hours if I'm honest. I am not a vet and I dont know what any of my hens have died of, tumours, heart problems or just plain old age. I've never performed a post mortem on any of them and neither would I want to.

 

I have felt badly about both incidents since, whether or not they were my fault. As I said previously, lessons have been learnt and they wont happen again. Its a shame that when asking for help with a hobby we all feel passionately about that some people feel they need to labour the point by being judgemental and repetitive. And yes, you are wrong.

[dancing cloud]

Let's start from the view that we all want to do the best for our girls and none of us wants them to suffer. I don't feel we should shy away from asking how to ensure an easy death when their time comes.

 

I have taken some of my lovelies to the vets - and it's nowhere near as fast in hens as in cats or dogs - and others I have held as they died, or have found them dead. My worst experience was holding Lola for over two hours before she finally died, as she just wouldn't give up. This was late at night and there were no vets to take her to. I held and soothed and comforted her till the end but, if I had known how to end her life quickly, I would have done it.

 

I don't kid myself that I will find it easy, but when there are culling courses locally, I will go and learn so that I can end a life if I have to.

[KimmyCustard]

 

KimmyCustard - it might be that you were using an unhelpful search term on the internet, culling or dispatching or even killing will lead you to more information. I'd endorse what the others have said, probably best of all to go on a dispatch course, or get the vet to PTS (but this isn't always possible eg in an emergency), or use the broomstick method. I don't think the latter is a any worse a way to cull a bird than any other. I use it because it does not require strength, just technique and importantly I can do it on my own. Another sure fire method is the axe which I use on chicks or bantams. There will always be flapping, it is entirely normal. I can tell you that when the head is severed from the body, the wings will still move quite a bit as a reflex, which is disconcerting, but entirely normal.

 

Daphne - You're right, I did use euthanising rather than culling or dispatching in a search - another lesson learnt! Thanks

[Dolly]

Just wanted to add that when i take my girls to the vets to be put to sleep, my vet always gives them some anaesthetic gas first so they drift off to sleep and know nothing about the final injection part of the process, so I would definitely recommend that anyone asks their vet to do the same.

 

I agree with what others have said in that its better to end a poorly hens life quickly, painlessly and correctly however it's done, rather than see them suffer for weeks which is inhumane.

[kazmac]

I'm not getting drawn in to a debate here. But I also don't want you all to think I've been 'chased' away either.

What I will say is this: I think some of you need to change vets. I have never had any animal (hens included) take ages to die when put to sleep by my vet. Never.

[gavclojak]

I'm not getting drawn in to a debate here. But I also don't want you all to think I've been 'chased' away either.

What I will say is this: I think some of you need to change vets. I have never had any animal (hens included) take ages to die when put to sleep by my vet. Never.

 

ditto Kazmac...I am happy and have indeed received, several times in fact, constructive criticism on this forum.

 

also I have, unfortunately had to take one girl to the vets a few times and with hindsight I wouldn't continue for so long with her treatment but felt she deserved a chance but I have to say she didn't ever seem particularly stressed, in fact she pottered around on the floor of the surgery investigating, not at all like my dogs, gosh they shake from the second we get out the car!

[Grandmashazzie]

This has become quite a discussion KC.I think I will def go to vets and not get O H to use broomstick.The flapping post death sounds horrific.I would also ask vet to use gas first as a sedation.My friend had an awful experience with having her dog PTS at home and the vet couldn't get vein .Dog became very distressed.With any I have PTS I ask the vet to give a sedative first then final injection and it has been peaceful,so I will be mindful of the same for chickens.Also I do apologise for my earlier post I did not know flapping took place post death and stand corrected .I read your post and imagined the chicken having a prolonged strangulation.Sorry if I upset you.

[KimmyCustard]

Grandmashazzle - You did not upset me at all, thank you for taking the time to post

 

It seems all chicken keepers do things differently and it also seems vets do things differently as well. Some are advising culling at home, some give sedation, some inject without. I feel confident that I have made the right decisions for my girls despite what some posters think and will continue to treat each one on a case by case basis.

 

Have a good weekend people

[jesschicken24]

While it's a relief to see that people have had a less traumatic experience from taking their hens/pets to a vet to be PTS, I feel I ought to point out that not all animals react the same. Some will be stressed just by going to the vets, some won't. Some will have negative effects, caused by the drugs, some will pass away peacefully.

 

The most important thing is that we do the best we can at the time and as hard as it was I think that's what you did in the end KC.

 

On a related, though slightly more personal note, I was planning on going on a chicken breeding course next Spring. The course covers chick/rooster culling. As a result of your post I'm going to do some research into despatching just in case.

[The Dogmother]

As with anything in this world; each person's level of 'tolerance' is different as is their ability. So long as an animal isn't suffering, then let each person sort it out their own way.

 

Good call jesschicken24, this is especially important if you intend to hatch.

[Lavenders_Blue]

I am a bit late into this discussion, but I just wanted to add that I recently took a hen to the vet to be PTS. Normally my husband dispatches our sick hens, but he was away when this girl became sick and I couldn't face trying to cull her myself. It was not as stress free as I imagined. Firstly, despite me calling the vet as soon as they opened, I could not get an appointment until mid afternoon, so the poor sick hen had to endure her suffering longer than I would have liked. Then when the hen was PTS there was quite a lot of violent flapping which then subsided into twitching and went on in total for around 1-1.5 minutes. I had imagined that she would just drift away quietly. Now that I know what a PTS is like at the vet, I feel confident that a clean dispatch at home is just as humane, especially as the sick hen can be culled immediately and not have to suffer until the vet has an appointment free. So now I just need to 'man up' and learn to do it myself in case I need to do it in the future.

[Redwing]

I'm of the opinion that I would rather cull quickly at home than stress the bird and prolong the suffering by taking it to my vet

 

The reason I treat my birds differently to cats and dogs is because I CAN. I have the ability to act swiftly and the knowledge to use the broomstick method. I don't have the luxury of being able to do the same for my other pets as I am prevented either by law or by lack of knowledge.

 

Whatever people decide to do the requirement to be decisive is paramount. Too often I see on Facebook tales of chooks that suffered for days before dying 'peacefully' in their sleep

 

So home/vet whatever - just be decisive

[acw295]

Really interesting thread - thank you to the OP for posting it. Must be vey hard.

 

I am fortunate in that I live on a working farm (rented house, I'm not a farmer) and there are several members of staff that I could call upon to help if this were needed as they also keep poultry.

 

I lost one of my pekins this year - she was broody and then snapped out if it, she had lost a bit of weight from that but she seemed fine inherself and was eating, then 1 day she was hunched and obviously ill. We took her to the vet to see if anything could be done - it couldn't and she was pts by the vet (turns out vet think she had eaten something poisonous so wasn't anything we could have done anyway but I still feel terribly guilty that I didn't notice sooner).

 

I'd always take an ill chicken to the vet if I thought it could be helped, and let them pts if it couldn't but agree that if they are old or you are sure they can't be saved then dispatch at home is preferable. I know I couldn't do it - but do have people around that can.

 

I also have a horse and was always taught "where you have livestock, you have dead stock". Think that also applies to pets inc. chickens!

[Lewis]

Chickens are prey animals so hide pain well so usually when we notice they are ill, action needs to be taken quickly and sometimes the kindest and most stress free thing to do is to dispatch at home.

 

I've spoken to several DEFRA vets who say cervical dislocation is a humane method of euthanasia, specifically the broomstick method.

 

The flapping once they are gone is to be expected and is simply once the brain has been separated from the body, the muscles stop receiving signals to stay still and so use the energy they have left (we see as flapping), which as people have said can depend on the health and size of the bird.

I find placing the birds in an empty feed bag immediately after can be less stressful for owners.

[PixieDust]

For those people worried about the flapping.

 

My second dog had cancer. We tried to fix it but he was old and although we got him into remission, it came back. I had to take him to be pts - something I had not done as my first dog passed away at the vets before he could be brought home to sleep soundly.

 

To cut a long story short, I was at peace with helping the poor fellow on his way - he had suffered enough. I remained calm and didn't cry til I was alone many hours later. The vet explained what would happen. She told me he would twitch and move for some 5 minutes afterwards but he was actually dead at this stage. It was just the electrical impulses of the brain slowly shutting down. We watched it go from head to feet and just stop. It was quite beautiful and I am so glad I understood it and was there til the last vestages of life left his body.

 

The flapping is just the nerves around the body releasing the brains electrical impulses. As hard as it is for us to watch and comprehend, there is no suffering with a quick dispatch just like there is none with an injection.

 

Chickens and other birds can be dispatched but larger animals obviously cannot. If you can dispatch, (I could not), it is cheap and very quick if done correctly. If you cannot, it is the vets at a cost.

 

One thing is sure with any pet - it will die and if it doesn't die of it's own accord either the owner, (in the case of birds), or a vet will kill it to put it out of it's misery. If anyone feels this is horrible to think about, then they should ask themselves if they really should be keeping an animal.

 

I am not having a go at anyone here, but chicks, hens, cuddly, fluffy, etc. People forget the other side is not always so pretty.

 

(I am also tired and shedding a few tears for my boy)

[The Dogmother]

My sympathies PixieDust; you did the kindest and most courageous thing an animal owner can - a swift and dignified passing. Fare well on t'other side wee dog.

 

Whilst out walking the hounds last night, I found a young wood pigeon in the middle of the track; injured, covered in flies and still (just) alive. The dogs showed some interest, but the bird was clearly beyond help, so I tied them up and despatched it quickly before leaving it in the hedge for a fox. I couldn't bear to leave it suffering.

 

Occasionally I find half dead things by the road/track; my feeling is that the kindest act is to afford it a swift and gentle passing. I feel that if you are going to keep animals, you have a duty to ensure that it doesn't suffer.

[gavclojak]

For those people worried about the flapping.

If anyone feels this is horrible to think about, then they should ask themselves if they really should be keeping an animal.

 

I am not having a go at anyone here, but chicks, hens, cuddly, fluffy, etc. People forget the other side is not always so pretty.

 

My sympathies pixiedust, I lost my two shin tzu's within 18 months of each other after 12 years. It was devastating....

 

I have read and been part of this thread and I am sure no one posting on this thread disagrees, the consensus is, as DM said a swift dispatch if your able to do it is the best and if you are not sure you can do it efficiently then book yourself on a culling course, better still pop a request on this forum and I am sure one of our lovely omleteers will come to the rescue as per usual.

 

I have a chap who runs chicken keeping courses who is "on call" to cull my girls if needed, but I have to say if one of the girls suffered a fox attack or the like and was fatally wounded I do believe I would be up to the task as I wouldn't be happy waiting even ten minutes for him to arrive.

I recently lost my princess layer, she wasn't herself one Sunday and I was fully prepared to have her PTS at the vets the next day but she died in my arms that morning. She flapped once snuggled up and passed...

[The Dogmother]

I have one of the older ladies (7 years old now) who is slowly on the way out; she still enjoys life bimbling about and isn't ill or suffering, just winding down. I am happy to leave her as she is at the moment, but am keeping a weather eye for when she needs a helping hand to the bridge.

[Cat tails]

Occasionally I find half dead things by the road/track; my feeling is that the kindest act is to afford it a swift and gentle passing. I feel that if you are going to keep animals, you have a duty to ensure that it doesn't suffer.

 

I have had this a few times as well. Once I was on my bike and just in front of me a duck tried to land on top of a passing scooter. (Well I think she was going for the bike path, but hit the scooter instead...)

Horrific injury. Both legs broken. Underside was torn and (undeveloped) eggs were exposed. Clearly not something fixable. Lucky for her (and me) two lads from the city counsel were doing some work on the bushes and hedges close by. And one of them new how to despatch birds and gave her a swift end.

The man she hit didn't know what to do and was in a right panic. He kept saying that he didn't mean to hit her...

 

Not so long ago I found a injured gull (almost severed wing) by the side of the road. Took it home and left it in a box by the door, waiting for the animal ambulance people. It still had a lot of fight in it though and somehow managed to almost escape twice... Took a good chunk out of my hand too. When finally the ambulance people arrived, the lady was too affraid to handle the gull! "Is it going to bite me?" Yes of course! What do you expect!

Ended up getting the gull out of the box myself and putting it in the carrier. With two "experts" looking on...

[gavclojak]

I reversed over a frog/toad the other day on the drive and half of it was stuck to the drive and the other half trying to escape, gosh I felt so bad. My brother and I had to line my car up and drive back over it! I had the stereo really load in case it made a popping noise.

[Mrs_B]

I have only experienced having a chicken pts via the vets - but my vets is very close to my house and it was the easiest thing at the time. The vet said I could take her home and she would pass gently over 20-30 minutes, but in fact she passed within 60 seconds and to be honest I was glad.

 

I don't see a problem with culling a chicken at home - I just can't do it. I shake a lot and I am not a very confident person and stupidly sensitive. My neighbour has racing pigeons and is about 60 and he feels exactly the same about his birds, he calls someone if he needs help.

 

One thing I would never do is let an animal suffer. I tried to keep the first hen who I lost alive and kept fighting from inexperience - she was treated for a while for Black Head and cocci (we found out about the BH from a PM), fed her through a syringe in the end and the whole thing was soul destroying, not just for me but for the hen. She was showing improvement one minute, and was bad the next - so I was holding on hoping she would pull through. Looking back I'll always blame myself for not getting her pts sooner as she passed at home and it was very distressing. I am crying just writing this (that sensitive thing I wrote about )

 

I have a huge respect for people who do the right thing for their pets.

 

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