New hens not going into Eglu Go Up

[Egluntyne]

I agree totally Susiepoos.

 

I can speculate on how Madeleine's DNA was likely to be put into the boot of the car.....my theory...

 

We have all seen Kate with the child's "Cuddlecat" in her hand. It will have been covered in Madeleine's DNA.

 

Imagine she was seeing to the twins, putting them in their car seat, folding up the pushchair, she will have put the toy down in the boot whilst she got on with putting all the paraphernalia needed for a trip out with two toddlers.

 

This will have been enough to transfer DNA into the boot. I read today that only the minutest traces were found, which had to be enhanced by new techniques, and that cross contamination is the likely reason for it to be there.

 

Bluntly, a 25 day old corspe will have been positively oozing and stinking and there would have been absolutely no doubt that it would have been there.

 

Although I found it odd that she was allowed to keep the toy, and even odder that she wanted to carry it around in public I can understand that she will have seen it as a link with her child and would have wanted to hang on to it.

 

I notice it has not been in evidence for a few days.

 

I can't believe that the McCann's would have been forensically aware enough or have had the presence of mind to hatch a plot to use the Cuddlecat with the specific purpose of clouding the forensic picture 25 days later.

 

It is interesting how the mood of the forum has changed on the subject.

 

I posted at the time that I was outraged that they should have left three children under the age of 4 UNATTENDED IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY AT NIGHT and some forum members attempted to shoot me down in flames. (I'm not sure they succeeded.)

 

I say again that if the McCanns had been a pair of chavs from an inner city sink estate, the British public would be baying for their blood.

 

We have allowed the fact that they are articulate middle class professionals to get in the way of veiwing the fact that they neglected their child and as a direct consequence of their actions and no one else's, something dreadful has happened to their daughter.

 

They have been rewarded by an audience with the Pope, something which I imagine most catholics can only dream about, and have been feted like superstars on their visits to foreign lands.

 

I totally agree that they should face charges for abandoning their children.

 

It will be very interesting to see what develops over the next few days....and I hope the search for poor little Madeleine continues...she seems to have been forgotten in all of the fuss of the last week.

[ubereglu]

I despair at the whole case...Because in the first place why the heck would you think it was a good idea on leaving three young children in a room together whilst you're eating a meal out somewhere.

a) You don't know what they could get up to.

b) These children have probably never even been there

c) How safe is the place you're staying.

 

It's really just common sense and you can get prosecuted in this country for leaving young children at home on there own overnight in this country. I just find it really weird. Also how come there was SO much fuss made over this one missing child. Things like this have happened before, but NEVER had so much coverage.

[feemcg]

The toy cat thing is strange - in a report it said that Madeline had gone to bed cuddling the cat - when Mrs.McCann discovered Madeline missing the cat was found on a high ledge - yet since day 1 she has been seen holding the toy. Now surely the person who put the toy on a ledge would have left DNA, and it would have been 'bagged' as evidence immediately.

[Egluntyne]

You would have thought so.

[gooner.girl]

Also how come there was SO much fuss made over this one missing child. Things like this have happened before, but NEVER had so much coverage.

 

I agree ubereglu! Not that i am not sympathetic to their case but i am sure children in this country do go missing fairly reguarly. Its an awful fuss about just one of them... Is it because shes a pretty, white, middle class girl rather then a black boy born to working class parents i ask myself...

[chelsea]

I have thought from the very beginning something fishy was going on.

 

only time will tell.

 

I hope they do find her alive, but as time has gone on - I dont believe she is alive.

[susiepoos]

Also how come there was SO much fuss made over this one missing child. Things like this have happened before, but NEVER had so much coverage.

 

I agree ubereglu! Not that i am not sympathetic to their case but i am sure children in this country do go missing fairly reguarly. Its an awful fuss about just one of them... Is it because shes a pretty, white, middle class girl rather then a black boy born to working class parents i ask myself...

 

God forbid that colour should come into this

 

Give the McCanns and their family due I think this case remains high profile because they made it that way - they've tried to leave no stone unturned and I'm sure they've taken advice on how to get as much exposure as possible in their fight to find Maddie - and the media loves a story that sells and this one will sell and sell and make the newspapers lots of money

[Egluntyne]

I have to say that the behaviour of the foreign media was totally unacceptable yesterday......leaping out of vans at traffic lights to take photos of them and so on.

 

How does any of that help in the search for the child, which to me seems to have been forgotten.

[Lesley]

I don't agree that this is the only high profile case - there have been many others, the Soham girls spring to mind and a little boy who disappeared in Greece?.

 

I think any parent would do whatever they could in a situation like this.

 

Each case is high profile at times - but if we're not closely involved, then we soon forget.

[Popcorn]

I agree Lesley. I don't think it's class or colour related at all, although it is a fair point to make in our 'right of centre' world. Damilola Taylor springs to mind for me.

 

There are 100's of children that go missing every year. The main difference here is that they aren't snatched by an unknown abroad, (as originally thought anyway) - which is such a rarity, but more likely by a father living abroad. Many children leave home of their own accord, for various reasons, and so are deemed as 'missing' but don't get the coverage that Maddie has. I'm certain this isn't because of their class or colour.

 

The McCanns started this publicity with lots of hope that they would soon find Maddie. "Ooops, word censored!"ody could have told them it would have gone on this far, and the publicity now has become something different that is out of their control. They are pleading for privacy of their own lives. That's their human right.

 

As for the media taking pictures of their other children, I think it's appalling.

[Rhapsody]

I think this thread is interesting and very thoughful (gosh Omlet is such a fab forum!) I would like to say re abandoning their kids for the evening- on a Markwarner holiday it is quite normal to leave sleeping kids in the rooms and go for dinner. Usually there is a 'Nanny Listening Service' which patrols every 15 mins and they radio back then come get you immediately, you have to stay on resort and it finishes at 11.

Having said all that I understand this service was not in operation at Ocean Club (why?) but maybe the McCann's didnt check the small print and assumed it was....so flew to Portugal then found out they'd be eating at 5pm with toddlers every night (grim!) so snuck out one evening once they were all asleep..? Its a senario not beyond the bounds of belief surely? I think its very easy for everyone to puff out their chests and say what terrible parents these people are but I'm sure most mums here on the board have done the odd bit of delinquent parenting and got away with it. Motherhood does not automatically bestow perfection, but seems to demand it!

Devils advocate- something fishy going on,why would child snatchers only take one child? Statistics tell us that 95% of childen under 10 harmed or killed do so at the hands of their parents......

[Popcorn]

That's true. Generally random attacks of any kind are so very, very rare and it usually does involve family members. It's so hard to believe in this case though. Somebody somewhere knows the truth.

 

Gosh, I know what you mean about 'perfect parenting' The times I've had my eyes wide open and still let Stefan fall off the bed or walk into a swing makes me so guilty. Why didn't I see it coming? I should have. It was obvious to everybody else it was going to happen.

 

I can honestly say though, I wouldn't leave him in a room unattended while I went for a meal. I won't even pop next door while he's having a daytime nap.

 

But, yes, I can see how easy it is to become complacent.

[Guest]

I can accept that our behaviour on holiday is not 'normal' and we can make shocking decisions which we only realise when we get back to our real lives. However I thought I heard that this group of adults dined at this place every night. What about the children of the other couples? Were they all doing the same? I would not have felt comfortable doing that at all. Why not just get a take-away and gather in one of the apartments? As Rhapsody says, none of us is perfect and we sometimes make bad choices. I can't blame the McCanns for that, but I feel very sorry for them that they got so badly caught out. Imagine living with that!

 

I think the little boy in Greece was called Ben Needham. He would now be 21 and has never been found. I saw his mother on the TV in May talking about it. I can't even begin to imagine her distress.

[Egluntyne]

What about the children of the other couples? Were they all doing the same?

 

I read yesterday that only one couple in the group used the babysitting service. What that means exactly I don't know...did others use Grannies etc?

 

I think a lot of the answers lie with the other members of the party and that we are nowhere near the truth.

 

and

 

I think the little boy in Greece was called Ben Needham. He would now be 21 and has never been found. I saw his mother on the TV in May talking about it. I can't even begin to imagine her distress.

 

That's right Ginette....he was from Sheffield.

[The Dogmother]

I've been thinking a lot about this too, and as a single parent, I can understand that anyone might feel the need to get away and have adult company for a bit. But I would never leave any child alone like that - you have to forfeit things when you become a parent, and one of those is time alone or a social life. I am luck in that Rosie's dad is now able to have her for short periods and give me some time to be a grown up, but I've had 10 years of not leaving her alone - when we go away with my folks - we all go to dinner together and go to bed at the same time - I get some reading done while she sleeps. I'd never leave her alone in her room.

It's a bit like keeping animals (if you'll pardon the analogy) - Lesley and I were discussing this yesterday - when you take on animals, you have to be prepared to get up early to walk/feed/water them, you forfeit holidays unless you have someone reliable to take care of them. It's not a 'part-time, when you feel like it' commitment

 

I really don't know what to think about this, or where to start - I can't help but think that they will have to live with the thought that they left their children to whatever happened... also that if this had happened in the UK _ it would probably have all been sorted out by now - if they didn't do it, then the incompetence of the Portuguese system must be grating with them.

 

Rosie has been following it too and is disturbed that no-one knows what happened to little Madeleine.

 

Lots of things about this don't add up, but we only know what the press chooses to tell us, and we all knwo how selective and inaccurate they can be.

 

I just hope that it can all be settled, little Maddie can be found (dead or alive) and the case can be closed. I just hate to think what might have happened to her if some pervert had abducted her

[Cinnamon]

 

I think the little boy in Greece was called Ben Needham. He would now be 21 and has never been found. I saw his mother on the TV in May talking about it. I can't even begin to imagine her distress.

 

That happened in Kos,where we were earlier this summer.

It is still very much in peoples minds over there.We chatted with a few locals about it,as the Maddy case was in the news.

There are still posters around,some showing him how he would look now.

 

It was very,very sad, & it did make you think about your own childs safety

My girls are older & want & need a degree of independance,but I can never fully relax until I know they are back with me & safe.

[The Dogmother]

I'm like that with Rosie, Sarah - she wants more independence now, and needs it from the respect of being able to think for herself and to judge situations. But it's hard, and I try to judge each situation on it's own. Some of her friends (they're also 9) are allowed to go into town on their own at weekends

[Guest]

At 9 ?

 

Mine are 12 when they are allowed to do that - and even then it's very controlled with dropping off and collecting again at a fixed time and place.

[The Dogmother]

I know, I am shocked about that... they have top of the range mobiles, email accounts and msn accounts - i'm sorry, to sound so old fashioned, but there don't seem to be many safeguards in place there and it's an accident waiting to happen.

 

Rosie wants an email account, but to be honest there aren't that many people she can email, and I let her tap away on my hotmail account when she wants to email one of her penfriends. She's not yet old enough to understand, or be told, about the perverts that could be sending messages or some of the less palatable spam that arrives in accounts.

[Guest]

You are not old-fashioned, just sensible and careful.

 

Mine are not allowed mobiles until the end of year 9 because of the loss of parental knowledge having one incurs. I can see this getting harder as time goes by. I have a 'spare' mobile which the younger two can have if they happen to need a phone. DD3 (12) took it to Canterbury when she was on a course there for a week.

 

DD3 and DS both have email accounts but they can only look at them on my desktop (and I can see what has come in). DD3 uses MSN but our computer is downstairs and she is only ever allowed an hour.

 

Like all things, there have to be limits. To allow children complete freedom over the internet/phone is the same as allowing them to wander freely for 12 hours a day and never quite knowing what they're doing. I feel quite strongly that you have to keep in touch with your children and know what is happening in their lives. That way you stand at least a chance of knowing what your older teenagers are up to!

[bellekatz]

they are supposed to be taught about email and internet safety from Year 3 these days. I take part in a "deception" each year with years 5 and 6. I pretend to be a kid talking to a teacher over our network. They are shocked when I walk in because they really do think i an a child in another classroom. Its never to early to tell them about the dangers of the internet as long as it is done in a in a responsible manner. Having said that, mine didnt have email or msn until they were 11 And i still dont let my nearly 15 year old into Manchester without an adult!!!!

[The Dogmother]

I'm glad someone agrees with me - I thought I might be shot down there Rosie only has access on my PC, which is in the main area of our house - she has her own profile on it, but all the parental controls you'd expect and I know all her passwords. Like Bellekatz says, she understands about online deception, but she's not yet ready for a discussion about perverts and the se-xual harrassment that it can entail. It's a tough call deciding how much to tell them so that they are safe, but not wanting to frighten them

 

Thanks for your input. Perhaps the alarming number of her friends, who are allowed to roam town alone or in groups goes some way to explain the humungeous number of teenage pregnancies in the area

[Mrs Frugal]

Clare, I agree totally. Tom's just turned 17 and he was only allowed internet access in his bedroom without my control over what he sees when he was revising for his GCSEs 4 months ago. He's got safe search on and knows I'll jump on him like a ton of bricks if he steps out of line! Ollie is not allowed to go on the internet unsupervised and he's 14. Neither of them roam the streets, preferring to stay indoors and play on their XBoxes. I worry sometimes that they're missing out on socialising but neither of them want to and I certainly don't have to worry about where they are because they're always upstairs .

[The Dogmother]

I am alarmed by the number of youngsters (boys and girls) - and I mean pre-teens - allowed to roam Banbury until quite late at night - some of the girls are dressed like lapdancers and look so 'knowing' - it's so sad

[Guest]

A lot of children seem to be adults very early on - and it puts a lot of pressure on those who have responsible and careful parents.

 

Of course it leads to teenage pregnancies - if they're unlucky. When you've done all the 'teenage' things by the time you're 12 or 13, things will continue to progress. If you're older and doing the sorts of things that 10-12 year olds are now doing, the pressure is on to do more than they are doing. It is ghastly. I frequently tell mine that they should enjoy their childhood. They've got the rest of their lives to be adult. My other point is that if you are going to behave in an adult way, then you have to have adult responsibilities.

 

We could go on for ever about this I'm sure, but it's good to know I'm not on my own, even when my children tell me I am.