HappyFeet Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Hi all, I’ve been lurking on this forum since 2012 & after 2 children, 2 house moves, a job change & much MUCH research, am finally in a position where my chicken dream looks like it could become a reality. OH is on board, we’ve designed our new build garden to ensure it can accommodate a cube (pref. Mk1) with a walk-in run, & I’ve been in contact with local Pekin bantam breeders (we primarily want them as pets) and feel as clued up as you can ever be before getting new additions!) As we live in a new build, we have close neighbours on either side & at the back, so out of courtesy spoke to them all last year to make sure they were on board. 3 had no issues, one had a couple of questions re. noise & smell but said not enough to pay heed to the idea, just that they wanted us to be aware. From reading on here & researching, it seems that good husbandry should manage most smells, and generally a trio of Pekins shouldn’t be much noisier than 2 under 4s or a family dog; both of which we already have with no complaints 😂 Anyway, since speaking to the neighbours last year, one had now moved & the newbies are very much NOT on board with our chicken idea 😳 we spoke last week & she said they will attract rats (her main issue) smell, be noisy & that she doesn’t want to look out of her bedroom window & see a ‘monstrosity’ (her words) of a coop. Their house is behind ours so our gardens are back to back. She asked why we can’t just get guinea pigs instead... Is it all over? Is there anything I can do/say to alleviate her worries? Should I give it all up & as she suggests just get a trio of cavvies instead?! Feeling so disheartened now but don’t want to cause a rift with neighbours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamrhind Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 In my opinion, any neighbour who thinks that it's their role to decide what you may or may not do with your garden (and I've had loads over the years) is not worth cultivating. You will never satisfy them. If it's not the chickens it will be trees that need pruning, beds that need weeding or fences that need painting. Keeping chickens is accepted and legal provided you take steps to reduce potential problems, and I think you need to stand firm but remain friendly and polite. (I should state that this is easy for me to say because my only neighbour is a horse stables where they are more interested in their livestock than in mine). The rats issue is one I've had problems with in the past, and you would need to stay on top of that so that they had no valid grounds for complaint. Consider getting a treadle feeder - rats can't get into those and move elsewhere for easier pickings. Good luck! It's because of "neighbours" that I moved to a house surrounded only by fields. Best move I've ever made .... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Hi. I would first check with the bye laws of your town and county, email them and get a reply email which you can keep. Next check your house deeds that you are allowed to keep animals and have fences over a 1m tall. New build housing areas often do not let you keep hens. Then if all ok forget about that neighbour and go for it. I would recommend good house keeping and no cockerel only hens. Please keep me up to date how you proceeding. Regards Peter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat tails Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Like Graham says, they will complain regardless. Guinea pigs make noise too and their food might also attract rats. And she has no right to complain about having to see a coop in YOUR garden. Just go for it and like Graham says, take measures to reduce any risk of rats. I have a tiny garden and neighbours on all sides including above me. So I make sure to keep on top of the flies mostly with feromone traps and have an active cat to combat mice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullethunter Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 It’s not up to your neighbour. As far as the coop goes - you wouldn’t ask your neighbour if you were going to put a shed / summer house / huge rabbit hutch would you? An Omlet Cube and walk in run isn’t a monstrosity and depending on how you ‘style’ the run can be very attractive. Smell - the only time mine ever smell is if I haven’t cleaned them out for ages and it’s been wet for ages (like if I’ve been poorly in the winter or something) - but even then you can only smell them when you’re right by them - if you look after them well that’s DEFINITELY not an issue. Rats - again, this is down to good husbandry. If you don’t leave food lying around you won’t attract rats. I’m probably lucky but I’m not strict about this and leave food out all night etc and have never had rats. Noise - you’re right - 3 pekin hens wouldn’t be any noisier than small children or a dog. They’ll usually shout for a few minutes after laying an egg, if something upsets them (pretty rare in my experience) or occasionally have a whiny moan for no reason - but through double glazed windows I doubt your neighbour would hear them. As long as there’s nothing in the deeds of the house to say you can’t, I would get them anyway - especially as all the other neighbours are ok with it - then if this woman complains you can tell her the things you’ve done to mitigate her concerns and hopefully over time she’ll realise she’s worrying about nothing. This is why I hate people! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamrhind Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 @Cats Tails Out of interest, and slightly off topic, where in the Netherlands are you? I lived in Amsterdam in a terraced canal house and wouldn't have considered chickens at that time because of the proximity of, and number of, neighbours. One, in particular, moaned incessantly about everything: about shade from the trees in my garden, for example, and about the wild birds waking them up in the mornings (!) even though I had to put up with their two screaming, ill-behaved children. They even had the audacity to complain to me when I moved and sold the house because there was a chance that somebody who was less compliant to their demands would move in. Good riddance, frankly - I'm with @mullethunter in my views of most people. Present company excepted, naturally! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyRoo Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Hello, My take on it is this: Check to see if there are any clauses in the deeds to your house that prevent you keeping them, and check local bylaws; if there aren't any clauses against keeping them, then it's none of her business what pets you do or don't buy. If there are clauses/laws preventing you from keeping them, then she has more of a case. But, to be honest, you'd likely get away with it anyway unless someone does complain. From personal experience: Yes, hens do make a bit of noise when laying and you can sometimes hear them inside the house - but it usually only lasts 5 minutes or so and is no noisier than a dog barking repeatedly. Yes, hens can get a bit smelly if they're not cleaned regularly - and summer heat can make it a little worse, but all you have to do is make sure you're cleaning them. Yes, hens can attract rats - so keep their food in a metal bin, locked in a place rats can't get into. If you do get a rat, buy a humane trap, catch it, drive to the local woodland and release it. It sounds to me like she's one of these busybody people who expects everyone else to revolve around her and, if she's going to complain, she's going to do it regardless. So I'd just get on with it and ignore her. You wouldn't consult her if you bought a dog or other pets. We also give our neighbours spare eggs from time-to-time which makes them happy! Incidentally, does she have any pets? The only time anyone has mentioned ours is that a woman living 2 doors down said she 'thought she could hear them' in a quite pointed tone. I just replied with "Oh, I'm surprised you can hear them with your aviary. I love hearing your little birds twitter away!" She hasn't mentioned it since. You can also hear more of my other neighbour's dog than the hens. If she has a happy dog or other pets which you can hear, I'd just make a mental note of that - should you need to produce a comment yourself. Andy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat tails Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 @grahamrhind I’m closish too The Hague. Actually between Delft and The Hague. I do take measures to limit noise, especially in the mornings. So I have very spoiled chickens who get a corn breakfast everyday. I put it out in one of those dangle feeders at night and leave the coop open, so once they wake up, they tuck in. Doesn’t eliminate all sound, but keeps it acceptable in my eyes. Haven’t had any real complaints about them yet. But I agree, sometimes the wild birds, especially magpies, make much more noise than my hens. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyFeet Posted June 30, 2019 Author Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) Thank you all so much for your replies! Re. checking the deeds, I did this last year & there is a restrictive covenant forbidding keeping any animals other than ‘normal domestic household pets.’ I posted about it on this forum & the general consensus was that it should be ok, especially as we want 3 Pekin bantams as pets, but it is perhaps a grey area & I don’t want to give her ammunition if it comes to it 🙈 I will need to check local bylaws (I’m in South Norfolk - can this be done online?) We already have a 2.5m high rose covered pergola against the joining fence which caused no issues - funny that. I was wondering if I could minimise the visual impact of the WIR, perhaps by planting some (fragrant!) rose hedging or a Rose covered trellis along the ‘neighbour’s’ side to help screen them from view, combat smells and provide extra weather protection for the chooks. In an ideal world, I’d get the low rise version of the Omlet WIR to attach to the cube as it wouldn’t dominate the garden as much as the full height (plus I’m only 5” so can easily clamber inside) but I don’t think it’s compatible 😕 She has a cat who my dog (rightly so) barks at when it comes in our garden & terrorises the birds, but obviously I don’t complain about that as don’t expect a cat owner to prevent a cat going into others’ gardens... She just made me feel like I had no idea what I was letting myself in for, which perhaps I don’t but this plan has been a long time coming. As I said, I’ve been researching for YEARS! Edited June 30, 2019 by HappyFeet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapdragon Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 If you are happy with the wording on the deeds the go for it. Might just be worth posing the question to the local council (should nasty neighbour complain then that's where she'll go) as to what their definition of 'normal domestic household pets' actually is. Am guessing that would be Environmental Health dept? Regarding planting, pergolas or fencing I really don't think that you should have to go to great lengths to keep this person 'on side'. It's your garden, after all! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyRoo Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 3 hours ago, HappyFeet said: She just made me feel like I had no idea what I was letting myself in for... Now I think she sounds like a slight patronising busybody! It's you who's got to do the work. She may well hear the egg laying song, but it doesn't last long. Where we live, you can hear more of the seagulls and pigeons and the neighbours' dogs, and the aviary from a few doors down than our hens. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullethunter Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 4 hours ago, HappyFeet said: In an ideal world, I’d get the low rise version of the Omlet WIR to attach to the cube as it wouldn’t dominate the garden as much as the full height (plus I’m only 5” so can easily clamber inside) but I don’t think it’s compatible 😕 I have an Omlet lo-rise WIR connected to a mark 1 Cube with 2m run. I know they say they aren’t compatible but with a few cable ties it’s absolutely fine and I’m 100% happy that it’s as fox proof as any other bits of the run. Let me know if you’d like photos of how I’ve done it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyFeet Posted June 30, 2019 Author Share Posted June 30, 2019 Yes please mullethunter, I’d love to see 😍 As per your suggestion soapdragon I have emailed my local council to ask for further clarification re. the restrictive covenant, so won’t do anything until I have more information. We still might go ahead with a few climbers/extra rose bushes around the run just to provide a bit of extra shelter/shade for the hens, but more because I love them rather than worrying too much about doing it to please her. Like you say AndyRoo, I can hear so much ‘life’ outside my window (music, laughter, birds cheeping, dogs barking, lawnmowers etc) I don’t think a few hens would make a huge difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullethunter Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 The Cube run is intact except for the bottom half of the end panel which I’ve taken off and is pushed up against the lo-rise walk in run (photo’s 1 and 8 ). The Cube run is wider than a single panel of the WIR so where I can I’ve ‘run clipped’ the two bits of mesh together (photo 2), but along the back where the Cube run follows the same line as the WIR I’ve clipped mesh from bone WIR and Cube run to the pole using pole clips (separate photo). Because the Cube run is slightly taller than the WIR (there’s no gap because I’ve left the top bit of the Cube end panel (blue outline in photo 6) ) I’ve used lots of cable ties to hold the two runs together (photo’s 3,4 and 5) which works really well. The red outline on photo 6 is the top end WIR panel and photo 7 shows how that doesn’t come down as far as the Cube end panel. Hopefully thats helpful but basically push them together and use millions of cable ties! The photo’s make me realise it all needs cleaning and tidying and I need new tarpaulins for winter! It didn’t look this ramshackle when it was newly done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patsylabrador Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 It didn't occur to me to consult the neighbours. I live in a normal urban setting where gardens and houses all seem to interlock. Just have the confidence in yourself to deal with any situation. I've used black out curtains for summer solstice times to keep them quiet , I've had to shepherd one of my escapees back over a busy urban road, ward off urban foxes and rats, make a pontoon of miscanthus when their run got waterlogged and stinky. All these things and more will happen and mostly neighbours are blissfully unaware. The only neighbour who whined a bit is the one who lets his dog bark at 3am so I don't worry too much about him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyFeet Posted July 8, 2019 Author Share Posted July 8, 2019 Wow mullethunter - that looks amazing 😍 how many hens do you have in there out of interest? That’s good to know patsylabrador - we’ve just got back from holiday (hence the delayed reply) and I’m now not sure whether or not to change our planned chicken run site to against the garage wall, making it nearer to our house than the neighbouring fence, and potentially easier to monitor smells etc? Maybe it would be more sheltered from the elements too against a wall? Husband also suggested getting a classic with 3/4m run rather than cube/WIR as it will make less of a visual impact on the garden, giving her less to complain about. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvachicken Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 4 hours ago, HappyFeet said: Husband also suggested getting a classic with 3/4m run rather than cube/WIR as it will make less of a visual impact on the garden, giving her less to complain about. Thoughts? I think she will complain no matter what, sadly. If you buy the Omlet run, because it is green, it kind of disappears into the garden anyway. I would go for what you want rather than trying to please your neighbour. I had my chickens for my 40th birthday 10 years ago and didn't consult anybody. There have been no complaints so far. We did put trellis up above the fence to obscure them slightly but nothing else. You say that she just made you feel like you have no idea what you are letting yourself in for, does that mean she has kept chickens herself and knows all there is to know about chickens ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullethunter Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 6 hours ago, HappyFeet said: Wow mullethunter - that looks amazing 😍 how many hens do you have in there out of interest? I have 9 bantams. I wouldn’t want many more in there - the house is fine but the run would feel too small in winter. Stick with the Cube - perhaps the Classic is slightly less obtrusive but the Cube is better for the hens. They prefer to be off the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 3 bantams in a cube might be too few? Yes they huddle together at night but a cube is very large for 3 small chickens. Although insulated, i would probably opt for a classic Eglu and 2/3 metre run. I had 5 full sized chickens (2 were massive 😂) and 2 classic Eglus. They all slept in one Eglu at night. I didn’t ask the neighbours when I got mine. We’ve had problems with rats but that was caused by the neighbour’s rubble and messy garden, as the council rat man told him a when he put bait boxes down the lane. He saw my set up and explained to the neighbour that rats couldn’t get into my run, with weld mesh sides and a concrete base. 😂 Go for it! You’ll love them!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyFeet Posted July 9, 2019 Author Share Posted July 9, 2019 I definitely wouldn’t want more than 3 (4 at a push!) as haven’t got space for more than a 2 x 4m run & would like some lawn left! I thought they’d prefer to be off-ground which is why I was thinking cube - plus it seems easier to clean - but if a cube might be too big, would a go up attached to a WIR be better? I’ve heard back from the council & there are no bylaws/restrictions from them, so just need clarification from the house builder what is meant by ‘normal domestic household pets’ (and hope it includes chickens 🤞🏻) Re. the neighbour Luvachicken - no she’s never had them (I asked) but she knows far more than I do...obviously 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beantree Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 The builder probably doesn't know the scope of 'normal domestic household pets' HappyFeet, because the solicitor will have included that phrase because it has been used before, but they probably won't know the definition either. To me it is any animal kept without intent to profit financially and given the number of domestic chicken keepers there are (Defra defines a domestic flock as 19 or less) I can't see chickens being excluded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyFeet Posted July 9, 2019 Author Share Posted July 9, 2019 That’s interesting to know Beantree...do you think it’s not worth me perusing more information from the house builder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beantree Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 I wouldn't bother HappyFeet. There may or may not be a legal definition somewhere, but you won't find that out from the builder. In fact you would need to employ a barrister via a solicitor to make any headway, but believe me getting legal definitions that way will be very expensive. I think you asked any pet owner if they thought chickens were included the answer would be a resounding yes. Problem people will be those who have no pets at all and have never even thought about animals in that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyFeet Posted July 9, 2019 Author Share Posted July 9, 2019 Ok, thank you for the advice. If the neighbour says anything then at least I can tell her I have spoken to local council environment officer (which is true) and hopefully as that is who she’s likely to complain to if might placate her 🤞🏻 Now to figure out what to do re.housing.... cube vs go up vs classic; screening; where to site the coop. I thought I had it all figured out but need to make sure we’re doing what’s best for hens/us/least likely to offend the neighbours 🤦🏻♀️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luvachicken Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 9 hours ago, HappyFeet said: Re. the neighbour Luvachicken - no she’s never had them (I asked) but she knows far more than I do...obviously 🙄 Oh well..... Have I missed how close she actually is to you ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
