Will hoey

[Ygerna]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/8255125.stm

 

Interesting article. I am surprised at the amount of interest this has attracted from people. I realise that people have a right to eat what they like, for whatever reasons they like, and that animal cruelty is not to be tolerated, but surely the reactions of some of those quoted seem to be a little over the top.

 

I think that the right choice was made, and in a very democratic way too. Children today need to know where food comes from, they have to associate the lovely plastic wrapped pink joints of meat with an actual animal. They need to know how the animal was reared, its life cycle and what it means to be a farmer and, omnivores. Some having been through this experience may choose to become vegetarians or vegans, others may just decide that they want to be farmers, or vets, others may think little of it at all, but they will all have learnt something.

 

Anyway, as I say I found it interesting, but would also be interested to hear your thoughts on it too.

[jlo]

There was an item on Radio Five Breakfast the other day about this where Nicky Campbell was interviewing one of the mothers at the school.

 

I must admit that I tend to agree with the comments that you have already made on the subject.

 

The mother's point was that it was traumatic for her daughter having come to know the sheep as a "pet" but my understanding was that the aim right from the word go was to raise the animal for slaughter.

[WarrensWorld]

= More vegetarians, and that's a good thing.

[Griffin]

I think it's brilliant what they've done, more schools should be able to do something similar to help more children understand what goes into producing the food they eat. So many kids today haven't got a clue. Well done to that headteacher for sticking to her guns when under pressure.

[BarbaraJ]

haven't got a problem its not like they killed the school pet, the aim was always there to raise an animal to eat to educate the kids. if they eat meat they need to know where it comes from then they can choose whether they decide to continue to eat it.

[Redwing]

Strangely there was no outcry for the thousands of other animals that went to slaghter that day........

 

I didnt hear Paul O'Grady offering to buy them

[Guest]

I saw it on the news and it was just the one mother who had a problem kept saying "its like her coming home to find I'd cooked her pet rabbit for dinner." Errrm no it isn't but rabbit tastes rather nice too. So I'm told.

 

I would welcome it happening in James' school actually I might even suggest it.

 

I took him to buy meat once at a farm around the corner and she showed him the carcasses hanging in the meat locker - then introduced him to some calves!

[A chickychickychick-ENN!!]

Typical contrary, shoddy reporting which has caused the stink, not the actuality of the events, by the sound of it. Sometimes I think our media is the thing which needs stringing up for slaughter.

[majorbloodnock]

= More vegetarians, and that's a good thing.

 

Is it?

 

Without wishing to put you on the defensive, I'll just say that I respectfully disagree.

 

That's not to say that I believe it would be better to have fewer vegetarians - I don't - but simply that none of the arguments for or against eating meat and animal products is a clear cut issue. That said, I don't want to turn this thread into a soapbox for the omnivore/herbivore debate, so I'll shut up before saying anything of any real substance

[majorbloodnock]

Typical contrary, shoddy reporting which has caused the stink, not the actuality of the events, by the sound of it. Sometimes I think our media is the thing which needs stringing up for slaughter.

 

Yes, but unlike livestock, our media would leave a nasty aftertaste.

[Lewis]

I personally think its a great thing for these children to see, I know people in secondary school that don't know about these things and when we hatched the chicks for some it was the first time they'd seen a chicken and thats at the age of 15!

 

I aggree with the head, in a few years these children won't remember what they got in their year 6 SATS but will remember they had a farm.

I'd love our school to have a farm

[Chickvic]

I also agree that our children need to know where their food comes from and what it looks like 'before'. I'd loved to have had that experience, although I do get somewhat annoyed at the common thought of me eating my chickens! I point out they don't have enough meat on them!

[ClaireG]

I'm another who thinks it's very important for children to know where their food comes from. I was lucky enough to grow up on a farm. My sister and I had a pet lamb that went to slaughter. Mum was worried about how we would react but all we were worried about was the £5 we were each going to get

[majorbloodnock]

We have several farming friends, and one has just retired from dairy farming in particular. He has a surprising story he likes to tell sometimes, and I thought it might be interesting in this context; it is apparently true.

 

It seems that, whilst looking after his dairy herd, he used to try to do his bit for the community, and encouraged schools to come and visit. One such class came to visit from London and, having little opportunity locally to see animals, enjoyed it immensely. The kids were fascinated, and even the class hard cases apparently became eager students, lapping up information wherever it presented itself.

 

Our friend, seeing how well this was going, mentioned it was nearly milking time and asked if they would like to see the cows being milked. The teacher, with an intensely shocked look on her face, said thank you but no, and that she didn't really think it was quite appropriate for children. Our friend, surprised, asked her why she thought that to be the case, and she responded that it would be rather traumatic for the class to see animals going through the slaughtering necessary to extract the milk....

 

Yes. An adult employed for her intelligence and education still thought cattle had to be killed to get milk. The children at the school this thread is discussing will at least never grow up with that misconception.

[Cinnamon]

Good grief!

 

I too think that it was a great scheme for the school to get involved in, & that they have done the right thing.

 

The youngsters knew what the fate of the lamb would be from day one.

This smacks to me of an overprotective & misguided mother causing a stink because she just...........can

[Happy chickens!]

Why do people leave it till the last minute to try and express their opinions? If a significant number of parents were unhappy, they should have got in when the school first introduced the idea!

 

I think that if you are going to eat meat (and I do) that you should never pretend to children about the origin so I think the mum in question probably had some difficult questions from her child which perhaps she didn't like answering! I can't see the problem otherwise.

 

Scary teacher story Major BN!!

[chickenanne]

I know, it's daft really: if you eart meat you should be prepared to understand where it comes from, and not see it as being plastic-wrapper-product but an animal product. Why didn't the concerned parent complain before the project started?

[Space Chick]

I agree with comments made by people that this was definitely a good thing.

 

Children need to be educated as to where their produce comes from. At least the children know that their lamb had a good life before it became chops.

 

I have recently had the pleasure of educating some 10 year olds (friends daughter and her friends) on battery chicken welfare. My friend asked could she bring them around to meet my ex batts and learn about their lives (my friend is a primary school teacher and thought it would be a good lesson for her daughter). I made one little girl cry when she saw their feathers and learned about the cages, but they left glad to see that they now have a good life, and vowing never to let their parents buy battery eggs.

 

Children are stronger than we give them credit for, and as the next generation of food producers, the sooner we can get them to appreciate that animal husbandry doesn't have to equal cruelty the better

[chickenanne]

Spacechick, I agree, children are kep away from these realities too much and the chance of making informed decisions goes too. Kids should be allowed to develop proper, well-thought out opinions about things, and a one sided view or worse, a no-sided view is not necessary. Kids should be given the responsibility for their own ethics based on proper information, ones which they can justify and live by, and not kept from information which they are perfectly able to understand and question.

[bluekarin]

Our friend, seeing how well this was going, mentioned it was nearly milking time and asked if they would like to see the cows being milked. The teacher, with an intensely shocked look on her face, said thank you but no, and that she didn't really think it was quite appropriate for children. Our friend, surprised, asked her why she thought that to be the case, and she responded that it would be rather traumatic for the class to see animals going through the slaughtering necessary to extract the milk....

 

Yes. An adult employed for her intelligence and education still thought cattle had to be killed to get milk. The children at the school this thread is discussing will at least never grow up with that misconception.

 

That is incredible that, as you say, an adult employed to teach children thought that! I think that just hi-lights the need for people to know where their food comes from, be it vegetables, meat or it would seem even milk!

[PurpleTree]

I wouldn't have had a problem if this had been my son's school. It seems they were told from the start the lamb was going to go to slaughter, and not just be kept forever as a pet. It's not like they made them watch it be slaughtered. My 2 come in the butcher's daily with me, and they're used to seeing all the different meat laid out, and they've seen the deliveries of whole pigs being carried in. They don't seem fazed in the slightest.

[majorbloodnock]

Our friend, seeing how well this was going, mentioned it was nearly milking time and asked if they would like to see the cows being milked. The teacher, with an intensely shocked look on her face, said thank you but no, and that she didn't really think it was quite appropriate for children. Our friend, surprised, asked her why she thought that to be the case, and she responded that it would be rather traumatic for the class to see animals going through the slaughtering necessary to extract the milk....

 

Yes. An adult employed for her intelligence and education still thought cattle had to be killed to get milk. The children at the school this thread is discussing will at least never grow up with that misconception.

 

That is incredible that, as you say, an adult employed to teach children thought that! I think that just hi-lights the need for people to know where their food comes from, be it vegetables, meat or it would seem even milk!

 

I think what it highlights fundamentally is that, if you shield someone from unpleasantness until you think they're ready to deal with it, sometimes you'll leave it too late.

 

Life has unpleasant aspects; that's inescapable. However, it's important to differentiate between what will hurt a child and what will endanger a child. If a child plays with fire or witnesses a murder, that child could easily be endangered either physically or emotionally, so should be protected (so far as is possible) from those dangers. However, whilst a child will probably be hurt by falling off a bike or losing a loved one, the risk of endangering the child is small, so why shield the child from the experience? I know we none of us want our children to be sad, but they've got to experience these things to learn and develop (even if it's just to remember not to do that with the bike again ), and as has been pointed out before kids are remarkably resilient.

 

Give children the opportunity to cope and no doubt they'll surprise us all.

 

OK. I'm off my soapbox now...

[jlo]

 

I think what it highlights fundamentally is that, if you shield someone from unpleasantness until you think they're ready to deal with it, sometimes you'll leave it too late.

 

Life has unpleasant aspects; that's inescapable. However, it's important to differentiate between what will hurt a child and what will endanger a child. If a child plays with fire or witnesses a murder, that child could easily be endangered either physically or emotionally, so should be protected (so far as is possible) from those dangers. However, whilst a child will probably be hurt by falling off a bike or losing a loved one, the risk of endangering the child is small, so why shield the child from the experience? I know we none of us want our children to be sad, but they've got to experience these things to learn and develop (even if it's just to remember not to do that with the bike again ), and as has been pointed out before kids are remarkably resilient.

 

Give children the opportunity to cope and no doubt they'll surprise us all.

 

OK. I'm off my soapbox now...

 

I applaud all those sentiments so - IMO - it's a pretty good soap box!

[The Dogmother]

I couldn't agree more; as soon as I thought Rosie was old enough, she has known about where our animals go when they die and what happens, she has seen me despatch poorly hen and meat birds, and now she wants to despatch one herself.

 

If you intend to eat it, then I think it's only responsible and right to understand how it got onto your plate.

 

There's room on this soapbox for more!

[Chook n Boo Mum]

There's only so much cotton wool a child can be wrapped in & stay healthy for heaven's sake...........my children have always had animals around and knew about hatching matching & dispatching in general terms due to 2 farmer uncles who invited us to visit at lambing etc and pets in the home. At the tender age of 4 our youngest was given the choice of stay home and be here with Gemma when she was given her final injection to help her on her way or not...Gem had been slowly going downhill as long as DD could remember, so it only seemed right to give her the option of staying to the end and saying goodbye to her beloved girl or going out with a friend and coming back to an empty house so to speak. Both children chose to stay and we were so surprised at the way they instantly started recounting tales of happier times when Gem & Rosie were younger (and naughtier!) and imagining what she would be doing once she was no longer with us...we'd lost a close family friend shortly before & DD was convinced they would meet up in Heaven and Uncle Bryan would spend his days chasing Gem, trying to retrieve stolen tools & bits of wood etc. Of course we had tears, but they bounced back quicker than me

 

They have visited sick relatives in hospital where permitted, attended funerals where appropriate and often have conversations about where their food comes from....many people may not agree with it, but I believe as has been said before children can't be shielded from the truth for too long as it can backfire on you or others like the Major's tale .I suppose the teacher at least knew the milk came from a cow not Sainsbury's

 

Sha x

 

Edited to add that I think the Head did the right thing, if the lamb was always destined for the plate, that's where it should go...............says she who's found homes for her cockerels so they don't become dinner, but that was always the plan; rehome or dispatch