Bananachuck Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I just wanted to let everyone know, following the death of one of my girls at the weekend, about the dangers of giving layers pellets to chickens that are not laying. I had two chickens, neither of whom had laid for a few weeks - we think they stopped due to trauma as we had a very unpleasant break in whilst they were free ranging alone at home. The vet told me that you should NEVER feed non laying hens layers pellets as the enormous amount of calcium in them, which is required for shell production, causes horrible metabolic issues when they are not laying. Felicity had looked a bit lame for a couple of days before I took her to the vet and by the time I got her there she was virtually completely immobile and obviously very unhappy. This was due to the build up of calcium in her joints. By then it was really too late. I've been keeping chickens for about 8 years and this was the first time I was aware of this. I even checked the guide on Omlet and my other chicken books to see if I'd just been plain stupid but it wasn't mentioned anywhere, so I thought I'd post this to let other know. If your girls stop laying for a while, move them onto corn or greens to prevent this very unpleasant and senseless pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullethunter Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 What about during a moult or once they've reached POL age but aren't actually laying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I've always fed them on layers rations from when they start laying (not before) and until they shuffle off their mortal perches, and have never had any problems like that. I do put them onto growers for a couple of months in the winter when they stop laying (they are pure breeds) and then back onto layers when they re-start. Practically every hen I've had has been very old when they eventually died; the latest was about 7.5 yrs, so no obvious problems. I'm not about the segregate the old freeloaders and feed them differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat tails Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Oh wait? Should I put my pure breed ladies on grower pellets during winter? They are still laying, but I imagine that will stop in the near future. What are the benefits of putting them on growers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 You don't have to move them onto growers, but I feel it's worth doing to give them a rest in the winter and they could do with the extra protein in it. The oldsters are all 5-7.5 years old now and still going strong. While i don't think there's necessarily any problem in continuing feeding layers rations, there was a problem with the ex-batt crumb when it first came out a good few years ago - it appeared to encourage them to lay soft-shelled eggs; a few of us on here tried them out and ended up having to cut them with regular layers pellets until we'd finished the sack. I daresay they've changed it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat tails Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Hmmm, it is something to consider. Thanks Dogmother! I'll see if my supplier has any grower pellets. Good thing I can buy the food per kg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 See if you can find Garvo feed - I think they're Dutch - they are excellent quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat tails Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I had them on Garvo when they still were wee pullets, so I can get those again. Think my current supplier also stocks it, but with only three little bantams, a big bag of feed would last me months... I think Garvo also has 5 kg bags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkysmum Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Whilst I didnt know about the dangers of too much calcium, I have fed my lot growers pellets when they are off lay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mullethunter Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 My four are all in the run together - I don't have any real way to separate them now they're all bunking together. The Wyandottes are both in the middle of a heavy moult so not laying, and one of the Pekins hasn't started laying yet, so I only have little Bernadette laying (2 eggs every 3 days - clever little girl), but they're all on layers pellets. Is this a problem? Should I switch them all back to growers and just provide calcium and hope Bernadette takes on enough to keep laying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I've always fed my 'retirees' on layers pellets and never had a problem. It would be impossible to feed them separately without having a second run, and that's not an option. I'm sorry to hear of your hen's illness but I'm not convinced its just down to layers pellets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavclojak Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Thanks olly that's reassuring as my old freeloading girls are rarely laying and when they do the shells are poor quality, I have some new ex-commercial girls coming and they will still be in lay so really don't want to have to feed them differently x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purplemaniacs Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Mine all get layers pellets. The only time the non layers got growers was when I had some little ones who had to have growers so I gave it to the big girls as they had all stopped laying. But I wouldn't buy it especially to give to non layers. As others have said in a run I have some who are laying and some who aren't Chrissie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I've only ever had mine on growers when they were little. Never had any problems with my hens remaining on layers. However, they are hybrids, and do continue to lay sporadically over winter when they are over their first year. I think you have just been unlucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PixieDust Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I am not sure if my girls will lay this winter as the will only be 18 weeks in the middle of November. The poultry guy said feed a good layer pellet but should I not feed that during the winter? Should I be careful of what grit to give them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wez Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Interesting and timely as my 5 Pekins are just about done laying for the year I reckon. Only Ruby who has yet to have a go at moulting is still laying and the other 4 have either finished or are in the middle of moulting. I was wondering a while ago whether growers over winter when they stop laying was a good idea to build them up a bit after a hard working year (!) so sounds like that's ok to do. Really sorry to hear of the loss of your chook by the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I am not sure if my girls will lay this winter as the will only be 18 weeks in the middle of November. The poultry guy said feed a good layer pellet but should I not feed that during the winter? Should I be careful of what grit to give them? If they are not yet laying, I would keep them on growers until they start to lay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PixieDust Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I am not sure if my girls will lay this winter as the will only be 18 weeks in the middle of November. The poultry guy said feed a good layer pellet but should I not feed that during the winter? Should I be careful of what grit to give them? If they are not yet laying, I would keep them on growers until they start to lay. Ok thank you. Maybe I shall get a small bag of growers before they come home and if they start to lay get a sack of layers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beantree Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 We have a cock with joint problems. He's only 4 ½ and eats layers pellets with his hens. It's impractical to feed him anything else, but excess Calcium may well be the problem? But I thought that affected the liver and/or the kidneys, because they remove what they don't need? We always put ours onto rearer pellets when they are not laying if possible. But what do you do if one is laying whilst another is moulting? We have tried mixing pellets to reduce the overall Calcium intake, but then they pick out the rearers and don't eat the layers. Guess when you mess with nature by keeping chickens in captivity you are going to get side effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 You are right beantree; excess calcium would affect the kidneys as it has to be excreted and thus put an extra load on them, and while I am not sure whether they can b=get a build up (Kidney stones) like humans do, it is clear that it's not ideal. Growers will need a certain amount of calcium for skeletal growth, but an excess isn't a good idea. The calcium levels need to increase a lot when they start to lay as the demand for egg shells and calcium used to strengthen contractions increases. This is why it's important not to put them onto layers until they start to lay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjp Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 My mob get layers all year round but I don't give them extra grit or shell based grit as they get a top quality feed that has calcium in it they get to free range most days so they can get any extra bits of grit they might need. one thing that could cause problems is adding extra grit or limestone flower to the feeders as this makes it easier for the birds to eat it when they don't need to. with limestone flower if it's added to the feed then the birds can't avoid eating it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Wow - never even thought of it. Mine have always been on layers all year round. Just 2 new girls which were already laying when I had them and the others are all old. Maybe I'll mix some growers in with the layers so that it lessens the load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nannyhenny Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 There's a good article on this at http://naturalchickenkeeping.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/calcium-mixed-flocks-vs-mixed-feeds.htmltopic Personally, two of our four are in their third year, two are in their second year, three are laying at the moment (but not necessarily every day and it's not the same hen/s that lay or don't lay) and one is moulting so I don't think I shall worry about it. It'll be layers' pellets for all of them; too difficult otherwise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Chick Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I do the same as dog mother. Feed growers until they come into lay (which means I have some Silkies on growers at the moment as they live in the same run as my current girls that are yet to come into lay) and layers get layers pellets until they drop off their mortal coil. I have several 7 year olds who have long stopped laying and they are eating layers with no issue. In the winter I put them on a half layers, half growers mix (as I have a mix of hybrids and pure breeds, so still have a few eggs) to give them a protein boost. I echo that you have just been unlucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Powdered Biotin is a good protein boost, especially when they are moulting. NAF makes a good one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
