Cube mk2 and WIR

[DeanUK]

Hi everyone

 

Have been an avid reader but have never posted before except asking about Baytril.

 

I picked up our six girls on 6th June this year and we were over the moon with them. We also bought 50m of Netting and all the electric fence paraphernalia to keep foxy out and overall have spent well over a grand. What the heck we thought the chooks will be fun and eggs to boot!

 

Set everything up and we were well chuffed with the whole set up and the girls personalities developed as the days went by.

 

We did notice some funny bright yellow foamy droppings from day one and were reassured that it was just little mishaps as they were coming in to lay. See here for a picture:

 

http://club.omlet.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29183

 

We were having so much fun with the first six girlies that we decided to get another four and make it a round ten! The order was placed and I was due to pick them up a week ago today.

 

The Sunday before (13th July) we noticed that one of our girls was looking decidedly lethargic but when trying to pick her up she would bolt across the lawn as usual - nothing unusual there then we thought! But over 24 hours she looked worse and I noticed very watery trots too - which weren't immediately apparent - because they were so fluid they ran straight into the lawn!

 

Off to the vets we went and an enteritis was diagnosed and Baytril was dispensed but it made no difference and the next day I noticed a 'sloshy' crop. We kept her in the house away from the other girls as a bit of s"Ooops, word censored!"ping was going on after picking up the new girls two days previously.

 

Back to vets we go and see a different practitioner. This time a sour crop is diagnosed and it was drained and flushed there and then. I was to continue with the Baytril. Nothing then seemed to change - no better, no worse.

 

Then on Sunday morning the girl was decidedly poorly looking and her comb and wattles were turning blue. We immediately rang the vets and the duty vet advised that he could offer no further advice over and above what had already been done and suggested referral to an avian specialist.

 

So off we trot to Swindon to a specialist referral hospital and saw a very well qualified avian specialist.

 

He immediately recognised the symptoms and diagnosed Blackhead disease and didn't give our girl 48 hours but treatment commenced immediately.

 

Blackhead is a very important disease in Turkeys with a high level of mortality but less so in chickens. Cases are becoming more frequent. It is caused by a protozoal parasite called Histomonas meleagridis. Although direct chicken to chicken spread is possible it is very difficult in reality and infection is more likely to be spread by chickens ingesting infected eggs of the caecal worm Heterakis. The Histomonas is ingested by the Heterakis worm in the chickens gut and the chicken then passes infected worm eggs in its droppings which are then picked up by other chickens when ranging and scratching about for tidbits as they do!

 

Infected worm eggs can survive in the soil for possibly up to 4 years and they can also get eaten by earthworms which then also become infective sources for the chickens.

 

The Histomonas infects the caeca (blind gut) of the chicken and cause ulceration, inflammation, possible bleeding and swelling. They also enter the tissues and move through the circulation to the chickens liver where they cause necrosis and liver damage. Liver damage causes the sulphur yellow droppings mentioned earlier.

 

We left the vets with bottles and bags of medication. However it was very difficult to come to any conclusions regarding treatment as nothing is licensed for treatment of Blackhead disease in the EU and therefore the UK. This makes treatment nigh-on impossible.

 

A bulk dropping sample from our coop has confirmed the presence of Heterakis worms in our girls.

 

We have been advised that our garden in now permanently contaminated and regular worming will be essential. It is not clear whether we will be able to stop further reinfection with Histomonas or infection of any new chooks as worming is not carried out permanently and therefore the mere ingestion of worm eggs would infect the chickens with Histomonas immediately.

 

All together a very naff situation to be in!

 

So, here we are with 10 chickens. Only 3 of which are laying and we have had them 7 weeks! I suspect that the Histomonas and worms have affected them so severely that I doubt some of them will ever lay at all! Daisy, the really sick chook, is hanging on for dear life but is deteriorating and looking sadder by the day - we are injecting 10ml of saline under her skin twice daily to keep her hydrated as she is not eating or drinking and she has been wormed but there is doubt over whether it is actually working its way through her system - the reason her crop was 'sloshy' was not because of sour crop per se but because her bowel is so congested that basically she was full to the brim and nothing was going through her!

 

So please, please, please be very astute to your girls daily habits and watch out for any changes. Especially look for yellow foamy droppings - they are characteristic of Blackhead disease and when they are present it is proof of the condition. It is NOT a whoops with a yolk as often thought!

 

Please also be aware that Verm-X is not effective. The avian specialist advised me that recent research shows that having a tinkle against a wall is just as effective at worming as giving Verm-X.

 

If anyone has any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me or reply here and I will do my best to help but I can only advise on our experience.

 

Please wish our girls luck!

[Ms Tilytinkle]

I wish you & your girls luck, How devastating.

On of mine had a dark yellow foamy dropping yesterday, as we were all sitting out they came over so she was on the path as i went straight to get the hose. It was very dark yellow with bits in, i assumed she'd had a snail

 

I will worm my girls again with Flubevent , i cant watch them anymore then i do!!

 

What a time, bless you Hope things get better have you tried the flubevent, could that work?

 

Do yours free range all of the time or in a run? Your garden permanently contaminated, so was it contaminated before the chickens or is it only passed on by chickens ?

 

So sorry to read about your experiences what will you do long term?

 

Ms Tillywishesyouthebestofluckandhopesomethingextraordinaryoccursandtheycanbecured

[DeanUK]

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

There hasn't been chickens in the garden for at least 5 years and doubt at all before then so the contamination I refer to is from our girls!

 

Worms can be passed by other birds but the Histomonas is an infection of pheasant, turkey and other fowl/poultry.

 

They have been wormed with Panacur now and the vet has advised quaterly worming with Panacur but I think that I shall alternate that with Flubenvet every 6 weeks as the ground is so heavily contaminated.

 

Thanks again for your wishes!

[Egluntyne]

Very sorry to hear about this dreadful situation.

 

I have never rated Verm -X myself.

 

More info on Blackhead**here**

[WitchHazel]

Thank you for sharing this info.

So sorry to hear about your situation.

[Troy]

What an awful situation you are in with your chooks.

We wish you the best of luck

Troy

[Lapinou]

How awful for you Where did you get the chickens from? It must be rife at the breeders too...have you had to let them know?

[Lesley]

What an awful way to start off, especially as you were so looking forward to it all.

 

We are aware of Blackhed as we've had turkeys the last two Christmasses and they can catch it from chickens if they share the same water even if the chickens are showing no apparent signs.

 

I wish you well and hope that the frequent worming helps.

[Janty]

Best wishes to your girls. I hope your poorly girl pulls through.

You've had a terrible start to your chicken keeping. Hope it gets better from now onwards.

 

Thinking of you,

 

Jan

[DeanUK]

Thanks everyone

[Cooks]

So sorry you have found yourselves in this position. I wish your sick girl well and hope it all works out well for you.

[Olly]

How awful - echo what Lapinou says, have you told the breeder, because they must have been infected with this before they arrived?

 

I do hope the worming works, and that your poorly girl gets over it - thank goodness you found an avian vet, although the bills are probably eyewatering. That's such an unfortunate start - chicken-keeping can only get better, but thanks for the warning. I have seen foamy yellow poos, but thought nothing of it.

[The Brown Clan]

So sorry this has happened to you and your Chooks, hope this will get better with the medication your vet has prescribed , will be extra vigulant now with poohs have seen that before with mine but thought it was down to too many slugs

[Ain't Nobody Here]

Only just read your thread (I was away when you first posted). So sorry to hear about your awful situation . How are things now?

[chelsea]

oh dear im so sorry to hear of your situation, what a nightmare, I really hope your girls pull through and you are back to normal soon.

 

 

I really think verm-x should be marketed differently, it really isnt a suitable wormer (IMO), its more like a health supplement than a proper wormer and isnt reliable.

[Karen & co.]

I hope your girls are now on the mend

 

Karen x

[Mrs AVP]

My chicken had the poo like your photo and couldn't breathe properly we have just had her put to sleep!!!

 

Thanks for your photo when I saw this I knew she was poorly.

 

 

Hope your chicks are better!!

[sandyhas3chucks]

Again CRIKES It would seem to be pretty rare from the link, but 2 of you?

Is stylofan any for this? (treating the ground?)

[The Dogmother]

I hope that you manage to get on top of this.

 

It is worth treating the soil with Lime and Stalosan each time you dig it over or clean the run out; this will help to kill the worm cysts.

 

To avoid any panic, it's important to note the difference between a hen that is constantly doing yellow foamy poos and one who only does them occasionally. It is perfectly normal for a chook to do a curry sauce poo every 10th poo or so - this is just the caecal gland clearing. However, if your hen always seesm to have 'poo problems' then action is needed. Avipro is an excellent product for treating poorly hens, especially those with dodgy tums and it helps to keep them hydrated.

[Baaaad Kitty]

Gosh, I'm so sorry to hear about this - have you managed to resolve it yet with all the work you're doing?

 

My chickens (3 vaccinated isa browns) are laying well (2 eggs one day and 3 the next, on rotation!) but keep passing the occasional foamy yellow droppings and frequently very liquid ones too. They've seemed so fine in themselves I've not worried, but after reading this I'm not so sure! We've had them for three months now and I'd like to worm them to be sure that they don't develop anything (my garden's quite little so pests are going to have a field day if they get going). I'd be grateful for any cast iron advice offered on how to start off on the right foot.

[Budgies]

Hi Baaaaad kitty!

 

Your girls sound fine - the foamy yellow poo occasionally is the caecal gland poop - about 1 in 10 comes from this area and contains fermented vegetative matter (nice!)

 

If every poop was yellow, you would need to see a vet pronto.

 

As for worming, it's a very good idea to worm them regularly. We find that Flubenvet is the most effective wormer and is added to their food for 7 days. It doesn't require any egg withdrawal period so you can go on enjoying their eggs whilst they are being treated.

 

Buy online from many suppliers.

[frogprincess]

We have had our three since Monday and every day there have been one or two yellow, runny poos in the run, which at first I thought were yolks, as one looks like she's coming up for laying. Should I be worried about worms, or will they do the curry sauce poos frequently enough to see a couple a day?

 

Thanks,

 

Lesley

[The Dogmother]

As Budgies has said above, just a few are OK.