Yorkshire Pudding Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 (edited) Wise Omleteers, I need your help please. I few months ago I posted that my lovely old black moggy Marmite was ill. She has diabetes and some very strange blood test results which indicate that she has B-cell lymphoma or one of a group of related cancers. After the diagnosis in July, I really thought we wouldn't still have her by October. However once her diabetes was under control she soldiered on nicely until this week, when her weight has dropped off drastically. Our vet saw her today and says she is in no pain, but the diabetes is no longer under good control and that the cancer is advancing. To treat the cancer would not help the diabetes, and to put her on an insulin regime now would be unlikely to make her last days any more comfortable. So in the next week I will have to make the decision to have her put to sleep. This isn't difficult, although it will be emotional; I love her dearly and she deserves a painless and dignifed end to a happy life. My dilemma is this. ES and YS have been aware for some time that Marmite will probably have to be euthanised and they now know that it will be very soon. YS (6) immediately said he didn't want to be there; ES (9) at the moment wants to be with her. He is a sensitive soul and I want to listen to his wishes but don't want him to be there if it is likely to be too traumatic. He understands that it is kinder than allowing her to suffer and that the vet will give an injection which will put her to sleep, then her heart and breathing will stop and she will die. I have never had to have a pet put to sleep before so have nothing to measure by - has anyone any experience of children and pets in this situation? What should I tell him? Edited December 12, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebird Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 So sorry to hear about Marmite. It is such a hard decision to make. I have no experience with children being present when I had my two beloved labradors put to sleep. However, with Jack (my first dog) he yelped when they put the needle in his forearm and that really upset me. So when my second dog, Ben, had to be put to sleep the vet gave him a painless injection in his thigh muscle which put him into a deep sleep and then when he administered the lethal injection in his front leg the dog felt nothing and he passed away peacefully. I would always have it done that way in future to save any distress. Both my dogs where put to sleep at home. Done this way I can see no problem in a child being present because it was all very calm and it just looked as though the dog was in a deep, peaceful sleep. Good luck with your decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 That is such sad news Helen, but a decision bravely taken. Rosie (10) hasn't been there when any of our furry babies had to be PTS, but was present when the last two chooks were assisted off their mortal perches. We have always discussed what has had to be done, and like me she's very pragmatic about it all, but has a good sob nonetheless. If he has been well prepared, i don't see any harm in him being there and seeing Marmite into the next stage of the circle of life. My thoughts are with you xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egg Lou Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I have lost a few pets over the years.. and in the main have allowed my DD to be present. We had to have our much loved first dog Ben put to sleep after 11 years when DD was only about 7/8.. The vet agreed to come out to the house rather than us having to go there and stress Ben or anyone else further.. We held Ben and explaned to DD that he was in a lot of pain etc so we were going to give him some medicine that allowed him to doze off have a lovely sleep and never wake up so all the pain would be gone.. It was a very emotional expereince for all the family.. however I feel by everyone being present we were able to grieve fully, accept why and then in time move on. I think it is important to allow children to make their own choice whether to be present as long as you are able to give honest explaination of what is happening. I remember as a child not being allowed to go to a family funeral as too young.. but never quite accepted the death. You know your children better than anyone so I'm sure you will make the right choices with them.. I hope all goes as well as it can for you .. ((hugs)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little chickadee Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I've had no experience of this since we've had our kids so don't know what I'd do. i think giving them the choice would be best if you can face it. Hugs from over here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellekatz Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Neither of mine have been present when our pets have been put to sleep - they cansometimes "scream" and my vet thought it would be too distressing for them - not really like going to sleep as they know it. However , now they are both teenagers I would give them the option of coming with me but am fairly sure they would decline. I think mine woudl prefer to remember them as they were. Our cat Taz died suddenly a few weeks back right in front of DS and it took him a while to get over it - even at nearly 14 he didnt want to see the final moments - unfortunately on this occasion he had no choice It is a hard decision and I think must depend on you individual child - good luck with your decision and I am really sorry that Marmite has declined so fast (((hugs))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 So sorry to hear about Marmite. Sadly I've had the experience of having to have a cat PTS several times. The worst bit in some ways is that they have to clip fur off the cat's paw to find a vein, just as they would for a blood test and that is probably the most distressing bit because even if they're very poorly they usually hate that. In my experience the actual injection is then very quick and the cat literally just stops breathing. In some ways it's too quick, yes it is as if they fall asleep, but there isn't a long period of stroking a sleeping cat - the drug takes effect very fast. I don't have children and it's hard to judge whether it would be more, or less, distressing to a child. In my experience one of the hardest things about death - any death - is accepting that the person, or animal, really is dead, and sometimes seeing it can help with that. It's going to be hard anyway, and certainly based on what I've seen, the actual death isn't traumatic or upsetting. Might be worth ringing the vet to check their views, they've probably come across this before. As you say, not a difficult decision after a long and happy life, but a sad one for all of you nonetheless. I wish you well, whatever you and ES decide to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooks Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 so sorry to hear about Marmite, I have recently had to make that choice and Poppy went to Rainbow Bridge August. I have two boys aged 11 and almost 13 however I wouldn't have let them come. Not for the fact that they were not prepared for it, because they were as we had had a little bit of time to accept it, or for the fact that they would not be able to handle it as I think they probably would have been ok, very upset, but ok, but I was a hysterical wreck (and still am some of the time) and handling two children's emotions plus my own would have been too much. Like another poster said it is not like 'going to sleep' as kids think, however you have to judge your own and your children's state of mind and how you will will feel before and after. I wish you huge hugs xxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aunty e Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 Cats sometimes scream or cry when the needle goes in, and it's absolutely horrible. I really really wouldn't let your children be there. If you bring him home straight afterwards, they can say goodbye to him when he's obviously 'not there', but without the risk that they'll think he was being hurt. I've been in the waiting room a couple of times when the cat has made a noise, and it's heartbreaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seagazer Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 I'm so sorry to hear about Marmite. It is a hard decision to have to let a pet go. When we knew Sally had to be put to sleep my DD who was 19 and YS who was 8 wanted to come and see her before (she had been in the vets for about 4 days). My ES (15) didn't even want to come to the vets to see her one last time, he wanted to remember her how she used to be. They had time to stroke her and talk to her, this was highly emotional. They both didn't want to stay whilst she was put to sleep. But Sally slipped away very peacefully with me cradling her head and stroking her. With AJ we all knew that he had to be put to sleep, so Jack spent the early morning cuddling him and taking photos. He was very brave at the vets. The vet said we couldn't be with him being put to sleep as they do it by a different method (gas I think) but that we could see AJ afterwards. Jack didn't want to so we left him there. I've only had to have one cat put to sleep in my presence. He also slipped away quite peacefully. I think it does depend on your child, it will be upsetting if they witness the pet being put to sleep but sometimes it does help them grieve afterwards. Jack has a memory box which has Sally's collar and Molly's collar in. Something like that might be helpfull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 When he had to have our dog Muffin put to sleep i was only 9/10 and my other siblings younger. We all knew it was going to happen so the weekend before we took lots of photos and spent as much time with her as possible. My mum gave me the option of going but i decided against it as i wanted to remember how she was. When my mum took her she gave her some biscuits when she was with the vet and then let her slip away. As far as i know she went peacefully without any pain. However i do think it would have been better for the vet to some to the house as Muffin hated the vets so she would have been under much less stress if had been done at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkshire Pudding Posted October 24, 2008 Author Share Posted October 24, 2008 Thanks all of you for your kindness and good advice. I'm not yet sure what the 'right' course of action will be - there are so many possibilities as to what may or may not happen. However I am giving the boys time to think about it, and myself as well. OH feels it would be best for ES not to be with her at the end, and I think I am coming around to that myself. Both boys have asked about burying her in her favourite spot under the ash tree in the garden, we are discussing the options with regard to that or scattering ashes. I also intend to keep her collar and photos for us all to remember her by. Marmite, meanwhile, is treated like a little skinny, furry princess - now that her diabetes is less of an issue, she is being allowed a few of the treats she craves, and we are all spending plenty of time with her stroking her and being loved in return. I fear that time is very short, and I don't want her to go beyond the point where she is happy, if weak, and not suffering. I'll let you know what we decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 It is a hard decision, and it may be up to you in the end. I remember when I was probably 9ish, I went to the vets with my hamster, and I knew it was the end for her. I still remember the vet was really nice about it, and I wanted to be there. I've done work experience at the vets, and the first euthanasia I saw, was a dog, and the whole family was there, (3 teenage girls, mom and dad) and they were all really loud, and really upset, but they all wanted to be there and watch. It was peaceful, then the vet listened with a stethoscope as the heart stopped. I think you can deal with it afterwards a bit more. But I also understand remembering the animal at it's best. Good Luck which ever way you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omletina Kyckling Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 I'm so sorry to hear about Marmite, what an awful time for you, but how lovely to know that she only has a short time as it makes all the time you spend with her extra special and like you say, you can treat her like a princess! I can't really advise you in what's best with regard to your boys, but I'm sure you'll do the right thing when the time comes. Sending you lots and lots of hugs x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mostin Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 I am so, so sorry to hear about Marmite. I hadn't read this thread before making any of the arrangements with you for Sunday and now I feel really guilty that I hadn't read this before. I am sure whatever you decide will be the right thing for your family, and I'm glad you are getting to spend some special time together. If you do take Marmite to the vet and don't have the vet come to your home just give them a ring first and make sure the surgey is quiet. When we had to take the rabbit for his final journey the vet was dealing with an emergency and we had to wait 2 hours knowing what was to come. Not a nice memory . That's my only advice to you, just follow your instincts. Thinking of you, and sending big hugs xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAB Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Having had the experience of a cat dying naturally at home and having had another PTS at vet's, my wish for you all would be that Marmite would pass away naturally at home. Sadly some animals need a help and it feels awful when we have to do that. Your children are clearly much loved and much considered, so whatever happens I am sure you will help them pull through (and they will likewise help you). My own children have scattered seeds on the graves of pets buried in the garden and this is a lovely way to remember them. When we left our last house there were 2 hamsters buried in the front garden and we brought clippings of the plants on their graves to plant in our new home (many thanks to the Lion King's "Circle of Life" for giving my little one's that idea!) which meant we did not feel we were abandoning them. I really feel for you all as sometime over the next year I suspect our elderly dog will be moving on and is really too big to be buried in the garden so we are already thinking about how best to deal with things when the time comes. Best of love to your family and especially your furry princess to whom I wish a peaceful passing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkshire Pudding Posted December 12, 2008 Author Share Posted December 12, 2008 After fearing that Marmite might only live a few days, she soldiered on bravely and that time happily stretched out into a few weeks. Marmite was put to sleep this morning. For the last few weeks she has been stuffing herself silly with all sorts of fish and meat and generally been feeble but contented. This week she became very weak and couldn't keep warm. Our vet gave her an injection into her kidney, which was painless and stress-free, and she slipped off in a few seconds with us cuddling her. A sad but peaceful end to a happy life. We will miss her dreadfully. Thanks to everyone who has sent their good wishes and support, it has been very much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAB Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Thanks for updating us on Marmite. Glad for you all that she had some happy extra time with you and that the end was peaceful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seagazer Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I am so sorry to hear about Marmite. Sending you big hugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickvic Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Sorry to hear about Marmite. (((hugs))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurmurf Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Oh Helen, I'm so sorry to hear about marmite - you must have felt blessed when you got a few extra weeks of happy healthy-ish kitty back! lots of love and hugs from us kitty-lovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joojoo Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Ah so sorry to hear your sad news about Marmite ((Hugs)) from me and our brood Jue x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mostin Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 So sorry to hear about Marmite, she had a last month of being spoilt rotten with lots of tuna and love. I hope thinking of that makes you feel a bit better. huge hugs from another kitty lover xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ain't Nobody Here Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I'm sorry to hear about Marmite . I'm glad she had a peaceful end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutmeg Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 So sorry to hear about Marmite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
