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[Lesley-Jean]

I really am so upset by this new story I can't think what to type here

 

There are many people who I hope will be brought to book over this:

 

The owner for having the dog

 

The parents and grandparents for allowing the child to be in the same house as the dog

 

The dog warden for not reporting the dog to the police previously

 

I think it's terrible that an innocent child’s life can be snuffed out because some one wants a macho dog !

 

I hope the government takes this opportunity to tighten up on the dangerous dogs law (and enforce it)

[Guest]

Given that the reports now say that the dog was infact a breed that is banned under the Dangerous Dogs act, (a 'pit-bull terrior TYPE' dog) and that the owner had already had a written warning about the behaviour of the dog, I'm just horrified that this was allowed to happen.

 

Such a tragic end to such a short life.

[Guest]

I agree with you ChookieHen and L-J.

 

There cannot have been proper supervision. I can imagine the scene - early hours of New Year's Day, uncle and grandparents at the house too. Clearly a big party. Therefore an excitable dog like that should have been muzzled and kept in a safe space, not allowed to get over-excited/frightened/tired etc in a house milling with people.

 

I'd also ask (being the Victorian parent I am!) why a 5 year old was up in the early hours of the morning. And she had a younger sibling. It's not fair on small children to deny them a proper sleep routine.

 

I wonder how the family will cope with this - the uncle is going to be blamed isn't he? What a terrible start to their year.

[Jools]

As a life long dog owner, I couldn't agree more. Dogs are unpredictable and so are children. Put the two together and occasionally disaster will strike. I just cannot believe that anyone in their right minds would leave a young child and pit bull type dog together. It really does defy belief.

 

My two terriers are gorgeous most of the time, but tonight a fight erupted between the two of them over absolutely nothing. I don't have kids so I am probably over-cautious, but I would never ever ever trust any dog alone with any child.

 

How on earth can that family ever recover from this?

[Egluntyne]

Why am I not surprised to read that the Uncle who owned the dog is suspected locally of being a drug dealer.

 

I am not a dog owner, but it seems sensible to me that the license system should be reintroduced and that all dogs should be chipped.

 

Any dog not licenced or chipped should be confiscated and there should be no second chances for rogue dogs.

 

I know they say that there is no such thing as a bad dog....only bad owners...but too many families have had to live with the consequences of this flawed thinking.....after all the owners do not tear small children to pieces and leave them dead or badly injured.

 

Also....in my view.....children and dogs such as rottweilers and pit bulls should not be in the same premises.

 

It's about time that people got their fingers out and put some stringent legislation in place.

[Mrs Frugal]

Also....in my view.....children and dogs such as rottweilers and pit bulls should not be in the same premises.

 

My view too, Egluntine. Even the best behaved dog in the world can act out of character and it only takes a matter of minutes for a child to sustain serious injuries.

[Karen & co.]

I'm with all of you on this matter I don't know how you would move foreward from something like this.

 

karen x

[Lesley]

Also....in my view.....children and dogs such as rottweilers and pit bulls should not be in the same premises.

 

My view too, Egluntine. Even the best behaved dog in the world can act out of character and it only takes a matter of minutes for a child to sustain serious injuries.

 

And mine as well. Jazz is the most laid back puppy and would probably never bite but there is always that element of doubt, even with the most even tempered dog. We use a crate for Jazz, she knows that is her space and she feels safe in there. We used it a lot more over Christmas as there were so many people and more children all milling around - all very disconcerting for a bewildered puppy.

 

We did feel a bit uneasy sometimes, that she was shut in a cage but she was safe and so was everyone else. She got extra long walks to make up for it and more playtime once all the children had gone.

 

I don't feel so guilty about it now

 

I don't know how that family will move forward either

[Louise]

We used to have a retriever when I was still at home he was the nicest softest dog you could imagine

 

BUT he hated children

 

He had been tormented by them before we got him and he would growl at them if they came near I don't think he would have bitten but there was no danger I would have taken the risk

 

You can't leave dogs even little ones alone with children

[Guest]

We had to give our dog away last year, because his temperament changed. I never had any worries having around the children before - we had had him since he was a pup, and had grown up with the boys, but something changed in him at the beginning of last year, and he started to snap at me, bare his teeth and growl when I tried tio put him outside if we were going out, and we knew we just simply couldn't take the risk of him turning on one of the children in the same way - he was a big dog ( a cross collie/lab), and I have no doubt he would have been able to do some damage to either me or the children if he put his mind to it, so he had to go. He went to The Dogs Trust, who promised he would be rehomed responsibly, to a family where he would be happy and safe.

 

You simply cannot take a risk when it comes to animals with a bite capable of doing such horrific damage.

[Karen & co.]

I know what you mean Shona, our dogs spent alot of time over new years eve in their respective safe places as we had 70 or so people round and they were safe there.

 

Yesterday my sister OH new baby and 2 year old came round and I spent the day on pins, as our younger dog has no sense of getting away if afraid. Kitty the 2yr old kept grabbing him and tugging his ears, and they seemed so calm, but I was worried as she is on his eye level and I'm afraid I wouldnm't trust any dog 100% no matter what the history or breed.

 

karen x

[The Dogmother]

I totally agree with Egluntine and the rest of you on this! I used to have a lurcher, who was fabulous with Rosie, who learned to walk by hanging onto the dog's fur and toddlin along woth her. But I would never leave any dog alone with a small child, both frighten easily and then instinct takes over....

 

I was nearly in tears of rage reading that article this morning, also to see (like Ginette, I am a Victorian parent) that not only was the child up at that hour (and no doubt tired and overwrought), but also that she often played OUT IN THE STREET with the neighbour's children ..... at the age of just 5!!!!!! I'm sorry to rant, but this smacks of negligence all over the shop. The lad should never have been allowed to kepe that dog due to past warnings and concerns about it's behaviour as well as its breed; the grandparents should have had the dog shut in another room or restrained while the child was around; the little girl should never have been up at that hour either.

 

Rant over

[Guest]

Glad it's not just me Claret.

[Guest]

It's not just you Ginette - my lot were all safely tucked up in bed well before the bells on Hogmany, as they also were on Christmas Eve - I'm a strong believer in routine, and while the boys were allowed to stay up slightly later on Hogmany, I would never dream of letting them stay up so late at their ages (7 & 9).

 

The more I hear of this story, the sadder, and angrier I get - that poor girl was let down by everyone, family and the police, who all had the relevent information about this dog, yet no-one saw fit to act. If it hadn't been this little girl, it would surely have been some other child, who one day came across this dog at the wrong time.

[The Dogmother]

I am glad that I'm not alone in my anger, and sadness for the parents. I was looking at the picture of the uncle in the paper this morning - there's a chap exactly like that near us; he's had some bother with the police regarding drugs and stolen goods, and looks 'ard with his snarling dog. Rumour has it that he gets his dog involved in illegal dog fights too, but the police don't have enough evidence to pounce.

[Paola]

I am also with you all on this

 

One of my first thoughts also was what is a child of that age doing up at that time of the day. It is soooo sad and shocking

[Egluntyne]

Paola says:

One of my first thoughts also was what is a child of that age doing up at that time of the day. It is soooo sad and shocking

 

Your quite right Paola...I hadn't thought of that aspect of it.

 

Carelessness all round.

 

Some children just don't stand a chance.

[PurpleHen]

I am also with you all on this

 

One of my first thoughts also was what is a child of that age doing up at that time of the day. It is soooo sad and shocking

 

This is what I thought too - and then everything else you have all said already.. this poor girl was so let done by everyone

[Guest]

I totally agree with Egluntine and the rest of you on this! I used to have a lurcher, who was fabulous with Rosie, who learned to walk by hanging onto the dog's fur and toddlin along woth her.

 

That doesn't sound like a brilliant idea to me... If a big dog like that can turn and bite at any time - then I'm not sure I'd be advising anyone to allow their toddler to do that...

 

(obviously Rosie's OK - so no harm done...)

 

Phil

[theherd123]

Ok here i go

 

*takes very deep breath*

 

I agree with all your points wholeheartedly and its a shocking and disturbing thing to have happened but im afraid it comes as no surprise to me at all.

 

Unfortunately there are a large number of pratts out there who think that owning a tough looking dog makes them look hard but unfortunately this is not the case & most level headed folk see them for what they are - idiots!

 

However it is stories like these that put so called 'dangerous' dogs at the forefront of peoples minds but the law only comes down very heavily on people like me - a responsible dog owner. Do you really think that by tightening the law this kind of incident wont happen again? The idiots who owned this dog dont care about the law and never will so tightening it will not affect them one bit! But it will have a very grave impact on regular dog owners everywhere no matter what type of dog they have.

 

I am the very proud owner of 2 English Bull Terriers (EBT) - Teddy & Poppy. I have owned EBTs for over 10 years, trained Teddy & Poppy to Kennel Club Good Citizen Bronze Level, showed Teddy to Crufts standard and used him at stud. I hope that Poppy will embark on the show circuit at some point this year.

 

Now i know EBTS are not everybodys cup of tea but hey, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Yes they look a little odd with their funny shaped head & some may even say they look vicious but i love my two little babies.

I always keep both of them on the lead at all times when we are on walks and neither has had the experience of running free and never will - i find this very sad. This is why....

 

Let me set the scene - you are in the park and there are a number of dogs off the lead, a small bloodhound spots you and starts to amble over to say hello. What thought is running through your head right now?

Possibly that he looks quite cute with his flippy floppy ears and jaunty gait?

 

OK now imagine its an EBT.

Has your thought changed now? Most peoples will have to something like - OMG i hope it doesnt eat me, wheres the bl**dy owner of this dog & why is it not on a lead?

 

The Dangerous Dogs Act is a very useful tool and im glad it is in place however it is not always used correctly and dogs like mine, because they look vicious, are not treated fairly under its current legislation. If my dog were to be off its lead and then greet someone in the same way the bloodhound did - sniffing etc i can guarantee that hardly anyone would make a complaint about the bloodhound.

 

As a stated at the beginning of this post (rant) it is a huge huge shame that someone so young has had to lose their life in order for another to look hard and macho.

[chelsea]

Ok here i go

 

*takes very deep breath*

 

I agree with all your points wholeheartedly and its a shocking and disturbing thing to have happened but im afraid it comes as no surprise to me at all.

 

Unfortunately there are a large number of pratts out there who think that owning a tough looking dog makes them look hard but unfortunately this is not the case & most level headed folk see them for what they are - idiots!

 

However it is stories like these that put so called 'dangerous' dogs at the forefront of peoples minds but the law only comes down very heavily on people like me - a responsible dog owner. Do you really think that by tightening the law this kind of incident wont happen again? The idiots who owned this dog dont care about the law and never will so tightening it will not affect them one bit! But it will have a very grave impact on regular dog owners everywhere no matter what type of dog they have.

 

I am the very proud owner of 2 English Bull Terriers (EBT) - Teddy & Poppy. I have owned EBTs for over 10 years, trained Teddy & Poppy to Kennel Club Good Citizen Bronze Level, showed Teddy to Crufts standard and used him at stud. I hope that Poppy will embark on the show circuit at some point this year.

 

Now i know EBTS are not everybodys cup of tea but hey, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Yes they look a little odd with their funny shaped head & some may even say they look vicious but i love my two little babies.

I always keep both of them on the lead at all times when we are on walks and neither has had the experience of running free and never will - i find this very sad. This is why....

 

Let me set the scene - you are in the park and there are a number of dogs off the lead, a small bloodhound spots you and starts to amble over to say hello. What thought is running through your head right now?

Possibly that he looks quite cute with his flippy floppy ears and jaunty gait?

 

OK now imagine its an EBT.

Has your thought changed now? Most peoples will have to something like - OMG i hope it doesnt eat me, wheres the bl**dy owner of this dog & why is it not on a lead?

 

The Dangerous Dogs Act is a very useful tool and im glad it is in place however it is not always used correctly and dogs like mine, because they look vicious, are not treated fairly under its current legislation. If my dog were to be off its lead and then greet someone in the same way the bloodhound did - sniffing etc i can guarantee that hardly anyone would make a complaint about the bloodhound.

 

As a stated at the beginning of this post (rant) it is a huge huge shame that someone so young has had to lose their life in order for another to look hard and macho.

 

I completely agree with you on this one.

I am a lover and keeper of German Shepherds, who also in the wrong hands could be a dangerous dog.

 

You only have to look at the owner of the dog in this case to see why he had a pitbull - shaved head.....convicted drug dealer.....and the dog was an extension of his so called "toughness". This man will have to live with the death of his niece for the rest of his life, not so tough now is he?

 

I completely agree with all the other posts - why on new years eve was the dog in the house anyway - with all the chaos, fireworks, an excitable fun 5 year old...no wonder the thing went beserk...and why was she still up in the small hours?

 

As a dog lover (and child lover - I dont have any yet ) and a dog owner you need to take RESPONSIBILITY for that animal. We know our big fluffy german shepherd isnt keen on children - so she DOESNT get put in ANY situation where she would feel uncomfortable or where she would be a threat to any child. I dont think for one minute she would bite anyone (and hasnt in her 7 years since born) but im not going to give her the opportunity either.

With her being a German Shepherd we are used to the reputation some stupid owners have given the breed, but ANY dog left with a child is a threat

 

Its all down to dog owners and parents to prevent this. The innocent ones are the dogs and these poor beautiful children.

[One Man Banned]

Emma I agree so much with you on your post

 

It really is horrid what has happened but there are elements of responsibilty that was shirked by so many people.

 

Molly is as good as gold but Joe and I are still wary of her around children, especially the ones that try to tug her ears!

 

I was listening to BBC local radio yesterday morning and they were questioning whether people should have a licence to own a "big dog". I hate it when journalists or presenters put forward this notion that only a big dog can be a risk - I know plenty of yorkshire terriers that are simply vicious little blighters.

 

How many of us know people with an alsation and the dog is as daft as a brush and then see a (for example) pub landlord with one that is plainly vicious and trained to not like people.

 

A lot of how a dog behaves is in it's training and how it has been included into society, meeting other dogs etc, but no matter how much training the dog has it's natural instinct could be to turn if a situation demands, ie being wound up or goaded on by either children adults or other dogs.

 

A licence might be a good way to make sure owners are responsible enough to own a dog, (or any animal for that matter) but really will have little effects for the few who have no regard for the law - the people most likely to have dogs that aren't necessarily reared in a suitable way.

 

The same can also be said for adults having a licence to have children, given the state of some youngsters today but that's a whole other rant.

 

No matter what has happened though, the family must be devastated, they have lost a little girl so young and I hope that they may even miss the dog that they (in THEIR way not necessarily anyone else's) should have loved.

 

We can only speculate as to what really happened the other day as no-one saw but the family so we could never know the situation as it developed.

 

A

xx

[harveypup]

I have to say I totally agree.

 

At the end of the day the dog is a pack animal and if people continue to allow (through ignorance or stupidity) their dog to be dominant and "leader of the pack" then things like this will continue to happen.

 

There is no such thing as a bad dog just bad owners.

 

I have known a number of EBT's and Staffies throughout my life and all have have been intelligent, friendly individuals.

 

It is an unfortunate reality that the "type" of people who see Pit Bulls and the like as status symbols are generally the type of people who have no clue about how to interact with a dog and therefore the dog through no fault of it's own just does what comes naturally, often with disasterous consequences.

 

Who knows what the answer is? In reality it is just one of many problems in todays society where a lack of respect for others is eating away at Great Britain.

 

That said my deepest sympathies go to the family involved - they will be tormented with "if only's" forever.

[AnnieP]

I have steered clear of replying to this thread all day for fear of saying something in the wrong way, but Emma, you have summed up beautifully what I wanted to say: All animals are dangerous: cats smother babies....

 

 

The dangerous dogs act is a farce. It will never stop this kind of thing from happening.

 

I used to own an English Bull Terrier, like Emma's. He was a beautiful boy, and I loved him to death, but BOY did he evoke some emotive comments from others. He was a perfect gentleman and was never given the chance to upset or intimidate anybody. If it was a little Yorkshire Terrier I owned, I could have let him off the lead and had no worries about people's perceptions when we approached.

One of my current dogs, Molly, is an Airedale Terrier, and I am horrified by the amount of people who let their children come running up to her, screaming "oh look Mummy, a teddy bear etc". She is a very mouthy dog, and puts hands amongst other things in her mouth. Not to bite, but to feel. It scares the life out of me that one day some little brat is going to accuse her of biting them. She is BIG and her face would be on a level with a 5 year old's face. Yet, because she looks "cute" some people don't give it a second thought.

 

Anyway, that is an aside. The point I am trying to make (badly), is that no dangerous dogs act or tighter legislation is going to stop certain people from having vicious dogs. They make them like it. Its not the breed, its the owners.

 

The RSPCA (who should know after all), do NOT want a tightening of the law:

 

"Despite the attacks, The RSPCA said it did not believe that criminalising individual breeds was helpful.

 

A spokeswoman said: "The Dangerous Dogs Act is a sledgehammer to crack a nut, and goes against the RSPCA belief that the deed, not the breed, should be punished." "

[theherd123]

Thank you for your support guys it is very much appreciated

 

 

 

I was listening to BBC local radio yesterday morning and they were questioning whether people should have a licence to own a "big dog". I hate it when journalists or presenters put forward this notion that only a big dog can be a risk - I know plenty of yorkshire terriers that are simply vicious little blighters.

 

Its funny your should mention Yorkshire Terriers as Teddy was doing some stud work at a kennels in kent and the owner also boards dogs too. In her kennel that week was an American Pit Bull and a small trio of Yorkies. After just two days the owner of the kennels called up the Yorkies owners to come & collect her dogs as they had bitten her husband and tried to bite both her and me!! The Pit Bull meanwhile was an absolute sweetie!

 

While i am on a roll here i might as well also put across my point about 'handbag' dogs too!

In short dogs of any size, shape, or breed do not belong in bl**dy handbags or need to be carried around, for crying out loud they have 4 legs and can walk! There place is on the floor!

By constantly carrying the dog it will believe its status is higher in the 'pack' & above that of adults, children & other dogs & will defend its self & status to those who it sees as beneath them.