Solitary chicken - need advice

[majorbloodnock]

 

I think what it highlights fundamentally is that, if you shield someone from unpleasantness until you think they're ready to deal with it, sometimes you'll leave it too late.

 

Life has unpleasant aspects; that's inescapable. However, it's important to differentiate between what will hurt a child and what will endanger a child. If a child plays with fire or witnesses a murder, that child could easily be endangered either physically or emotionally, so should be protected (so far as is possible) from those dangers. However, whilst a child will probably be hurt by falling off a bike or losing a loved one, the risk of endangering the child is small, so why shield the child from the experience? I know we none of us want our children to be sad, but they've got to experience these things to learn and develop (even if it's just to remember not to do that with the bike again ), and as has been pointed out before kids are remarkably resilient.

 

Give children the opportunity to cope and no doubt they'll surprise us all.

 

OK. I'm off my soapbox now...

 

I applaud all those sentiments so - IMO - it's a pretty good soap box!

 

He, he

 

But I need the soapbox now so I can help my son build a gokart; we've plenty of handy hills round our way....

 

Now all I want to know is whether or not he'll remember the need for brakes before or after he's started his first trial run. If he's anything like his father, he'll learn from nettle-induced experience.

[The Dogmother]

Brings back memories... that's what life is all about though.

[majorbloodnock]

Brings back memories... that's what life is all about though.

 

Indeed. The way one's emotions change relative to your position on the hill.

 

Satisfaction...

 

 

 

 

Exhilaration...

 

 

 

 

Realisation...

 

 

 

 

Alarm...

 

 

 

 

Panic...

 

 

 

 

Kerb

Flight

Nettles...

 

 

 

Resignation.

[The Dogmother]

Quite!

[Chook n Boo Mum]

Brings back memories... that's what life is all about though.

 

Indeed. The way one's emotions change relative to your position on the hill.

 

Satisfaction...

 

 

 

 

Exhilaration...

 

 

 

 

Realisation...

 

 

 

 

Alarm...

 

 

 

 

Panic...

 

 

 

 

Kerb

Flight

Nettles...

 

 

 

Resignation.

 

I remember this routine, though it was very very cold, beautifully snowy.........and the nettles were replaced by a barbed wire fence ....fortunately we were little & the wire was about 18in above ground level

 

Sha x

[Janty]

Too many children do not know where their food comes from.

 

 

I'm taking another trip to Jimmy's farm this year. We do our trips on a Saturday so they are optional. As part of the trip we go into the butchery department where the carcasses are hanging (the children are pre-warned) and we make our own sausages. The children are shown where the meat for the sausages comes from and they love it.

 

[Guest]

Hi

 

Agree with everything but just hope that the ones objecting to this very real education issue are I assume folks that dont eat meat then?

 

 

Supermarkets de sensitise the real world in most cases. Its good for the children to understand the process that farming involves and then they can decide if they want to eat meat or not

 

indie

[ClaireG]

One of the best activites i did when working in a nursery introduced children to diffrent types of fruit. I read a story to the children called Handa's Suprise which has diffrent citrus and tropical fruits in it and then got the children to feel the fruit before we cut it up and made a fruit salad for snack time. A lot of my collegues hadn't seen things such as mango and papaya before and the children loved their snack.

[Alis girls]

How do these adults cope with pet deaths if a loved pet has to put down. When our rabbit was very ill I explained to the children (albeit YS was little) about being kindest things. I came back in tears, we had a funeral and laid flowers etc on the little grave. Life is cruel and we are in danger of the next generation being a load of wimps. ES upset last night as a lad in his football had lost his mum to cancer on sunday. we both shed a tear and had a cuddle and admitted life is cruel and what do you say. He was worried I would get ill, but I can only reassure so far.

[Saronne]

I couldn't agree more; as soon as I thought Rosie was old enough, she has known about where our animals go when they die and what happens, she has seen me despatch poorly hen and meat birds, and now she wants to despatch one herself.

 

If you intend to eat it, then I think it's only responsible and right to understand how it got onto your plate.

 

There's room on this soapbox for more!

 

I totally agree that if you eat meat, you should know how it gets on your plate - however, I don't think everyone's up to despatching animals...(I'm not !) Nonetheless, I know the process, etc. and make it a point to buy locally produced and slaughtered meat.

I would just prefer someone else to do the slaughter bit.

 

Saronne x

[Fizzle Knit]

Can only agree with what everyone else has said

[sadietoo]

 

Yes. An adult employed for her intelligence and education still thought cattle had to be killed to get milk. The children at the school this thread is discussing will at least never grow up with that misconception.

 

Mmmm...except that to produce milk, bullock calves are routinely shot at birth so in a way the teacher was right...sorry guys...you can't get emotional about battery hens and turn a blind eye to what happens to produce your daily pinta.......

 

Stomps off soap box

[Janty]

One of the mothers is winging on the radio at the moment stating her version of the facts. As usual with this sort of thing, no-one from the school is there to give their side of the story. My son pets my friend's lambs in the field just weeks before we collect one chopped up for the freezer. Believe me, it doesn't put him off.

[sjp]

There was bit in one article just after this story broke that some of the kids had suggested that it was killed most of the complainers probably think meat come pre packed in plastic or a burger bun

You’ve also got to remember that last week was a slow news week pre conference season

[A chickychickychick-ENN!!]

You’ve also got to remember that last week was a slow news week pre conference season

 

 

Zzzzzz... wake me up for Talk Like A Pirate Day (Saturday) then.... zzzzzzzz... til that pile 'o insincerity and nonsense is over!

[xScrunchee]

I personally could never dispatch an animal-too much of a whimp

However I have always told my children where their food comes from.

 

My 4 year old son was eating mince beef the other night. He turned to his older sister and said

'Em, this used to be a pig y'know!' Not quite a pig but he's getting the idea.

[majorbloodnock]

 

Yes. An adult employed for her intelligence and education still thought cattle had to be killed to get milk. The children at the school this thread is discussing will at least never grow up with that misconception.

 

Mmmm...except that to produce milk, bullock calves are routinely shot at birth so in a way the teacher was right...sorry guys...you can't get emotional about battery hens and turn a blind eye to what happens to produce your daily pinta.......

 

Stomps off soap box

 

No, I quite agree. If you're inclined to open your eyes, you shouldn't be selective with your viewing material.

 

In fact, it's about 25% of all bullock calves that are shot at birth. There's no reason why these couldn't be raised in humane conditions to be sold as rose veal (indeed, that's the only veal I'm prepared to buy), but I'd also point out that there's nothing inherently inhumane about dispatching an animal quickly, even at a few hours old. The thing I really object to is the waste, especially when there's an alternative, and I do argue with my farming friends and acquaintances to try to convince them that rose veal is profitable as well as less wasteful.

[Patricia W]

I remember the HFW programme where he explained about the best English produced veal. It made me stop and think that my blanket ban on veal actually was depriving some calves of at least a short but happy life.

 

I think the school is right not to comment after making their position clear.

 

Tricia

[Lesley]

I agree - we did think about raising some little calves as Rose Veal, we're still thinking about it.

 

I was vegetarien for 25 years but now eat meat we have reared - a very steep learning curve for me. but i was never against animals being reared for meat, just the conditions in which they were reared.

 

I think it's an excellent idea for young children to raise an animal, consider its welfare and be aware that it will be slaughtered to provide meat. It seems to be the parents who can't cope, more than the children. My grandchildren are constantly around animals which are going to end up on their plate since we moved to a smallholding.

[Old Speckled Hen]

 

In fact, it's about 25% of all bullock calves that are shot at birth. There's no reason why these couldn't be raised in humane conditions to be sold as rose veal (indeed, that's the only veal I'm prepared to buy), but I'd also point out that there's nothing inherently inhumane about dispatching an animal quickly, even at a few hours old. The thing I really object to is the waste, especially when there's an alternative, and I do argue with my farming friends and acquaintances to try to convince them that rose veal is profitable as well as less wasteful.

 

Absolutely.

 

If you had enticed me to eat veal a couple of months ago I would have kept you at bay with a tightly gripped crucifix and a bunch of garlic.

 

Then I watched a piece about rose veal which changed my mind.

I am lucky to have a local producer at Heaves Farm where they farm veal calves as a by-product of their Holstein herd.

 

My 4 year old grandson has milked a cow and fed baby lambs.

He collects our eggs and asked to watch me bone a chicken. He knows the animals that become our food: and so he should

[Valkyrie]

My daughter is a vegetarian and has been for many years now. She was quite angry at the negative action of the news report - mainly because everyone should know how and where meat comes from. We were rather concerned about Jiuj's demise and warned her that he was on the table (or what was left after we roasted him) and she was quite alright about it. She did know he had been dispatched earlier and was very supportive (I thought I'd be the worst mother ever known in the history of the world). I suppose I have never shielded any of my children as to where their food comes from - even watching Bambi, I announced that his mum was going to be the hunter's dinner - no problem - no tears shed. But when I was young you would see the meat in the butchers and recognise where it came from and what animal it used to be. Chickens still had heads on and hung with rabbits, pheasants etc. Sawdust on the floor, smell of blood (sorry too graphic).

Interesting to see that the article had the photo of the same mother for 2 days running. For goodness sake, I guess she was the only one complaining then. Perhaps she was the one on the radio too! I gather raffle tickets are selling well. Goes to show people appreciate how their food is treated.

With regard to veal, I don't eat it - I'm not fond of bovine meat, but on the odd occasion when we have had beef, I only buy organic (actually water buffalo melts in the mouth - from Laverstock - breaks the bank, but a rare treat and you can see them in the fields too). I'm not as fussy with other meat and will happily eat non organic from a good family farm that we know (one non-organic sheep in the freezer).

 

As I see it, it was the children's choice - and as they come from farming/rural backgrounds I am sure they knew jolly well that they were voting for the slaughter.

Major, I agree.

With regard to pet deaths - I am the one who seems to suffer more - children seem to accept death much better.

[Seagazer]

I thought I would point out that the area that Lydd is in is surrounded by farm land and full of sheep and lambs. How can the children live there and not be aware of what happens to the lambs anyway? I think some parents just want to moan and are there possibly ££ in their eyes? My brother and his family live down that way and when my neice realised where the lambs went she gave up eating lamb for a bit but now she's a bit older she's back onto it.

[Mutrix Farmers]

One of the mothers is winging on the radio at the moment stating her version of the facts. As usual with this sort of thing, no-one from the school is there to give their side of the story.

 

The headteacher was allowed to put her point across when the story first broke last week (might have seen that on South East Today so not everyone will have seen that). As per usual though she was then completely misreported. Paul O'Grady was interviewed saying he thought it unkind to let the pupils rear the lamb for 3 years to then send it to slaughter. 3 YEARS???????? The headteacher said they had had him since March this year.

 

I for one applaud what she tried to do with the children. Case of an over protective mother springs to mind!!

[kitchens]

Totally agree with you Seagazer. Live in Kent to and know the area very well. I'd love to know the real story ..... wonder if she eats free range chicken or gets quite as passionate about how dairy cows are treated on a MASSIVE scale ..... probably doesn't even know how they are treated and how we get milk on our doorsteps every morning

[sadietoo]

 

Yes. An adult employed for her intelligence and education still thought cattle had to be killed to get milk. The children at the school this thread is discussing will at least never grow up with that misconception.

 

Mmmm...except that to produce milk, bullock calves are routinely shot at birth so in a way the teacher was right...sorry guys...you can't get emotional about battery hens and turn a blind eye to what happens to produce your daily pinta.......

 

Stomps off soap box

 

No, I quite agree. If you're inclined to open your eyes, you shouldn't be selective with your viewing material.

 

In fact, it's about 25% of all bullock calves that are shot at birth. There's no reason why these couldn't be raised in humane conditions to be sold as rose veal (indeed, that's the only veal I'm prepared to buy), but I'd also point out that there's nothing inherently inhumane about dispatching an animal quickly, even at a few hours old. The thing I really object to is the waste, especially when there's an alternative, and I do argue with my farming friends and acquaintances to try to convince them that rose veal is profitable as well as less wasteful.

 

Actually major, its more than 25% Waitrose confirmed to me that less than 40% of male calves in any of its dairy farms (including organic) go on to any type of meat production. I too abhor the waste...but no-one wants to pay the going rate for a pint of milk, and so commercial dairy farms use breeds that produce milk but not good meat cattle. I'm not sure that the heiffers would agree with your statement that there isn't anything inherently inhumane about dispaching ( a perfectly healthy) animal at a few hours old.....they remain distressed for some time after. Thing is...we won't change the world until we cut the supermarkets down to size.......