Cinnamon Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Back in November we sold a trailer for a couple of hundred pounds,which the buyer paid right away via paypal. He then contacted me - he is Italian, & said he wouldn't be able to collect it until mid/late February, & is that OK with us? We negotiated a bit,& he promised to bring us over some of his home produced olive oil as a thank you for our inconvenience....& it was inconvenient,as we were selling it as we needed the space Anyhow,we have been storing it for him at a friends house (with his knowledge) & he was due to come over from Italy next week, collect it on Thursday,then use it to pick up various items around the UK to ship back home. But,we have just heard from our friend that he has had a break in & the trailer has been stolen,along with all the contents of his sheds.Ironically,they used the trailer to transport the stolen goods I have contacted My Italian chappy right away & have not heard from him yet, but I am wondering where we stand on this insurance & refund wise - any ideas??? Needless to say,we don't have the funds still in the Paypal account I am really embarrassed that its been stolen & cross that I am now going to have to deal with the fall out from all this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaireG Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Oh crickey. Sorry, i've no idea where you stand with insurance etc. What a nightmare for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia W Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 What bad luck! I guess the issue is " who owns it". If it's him, and I think it is, and he agreed to where it is stored, I would have thought he would have to claim on his insurance. The only other thought I have is - could your friend claim ? But I don't think it's you. Any lawyers out there? Tricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Not sure - paypal won't me much help either, you have to clain within 45 days of the transaction. I'd have thought that now he's apid its his, and as he knows its being stored there, its effectively being stored there for him so its would be between him and your friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Posted February 7, 2010 Author Share Posted February 7, 2010 That is what I thought too,Tricia & Lewis,but I can't help feeling really bad & sort of guilty even,for it being stolen,although it wasn't my fault! Not sure if my friends insurance will cover it,as its not woned by him, & whether the Italian chaps insurance will cover him for something stored overseas is also iffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wantchooks Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Not a lawyer or an insurance person - but an owner is anyone who has ownership or control of the item. So your friend who provides storage had "control" of the trailer and the Italian who bought it "owns" it and both fall under the heading of ownership. You relinquished ownership when he paid you, and control when you left it with your friend. So I would imagine that your friend would be claiming for all the items stolen on his insurance, including the trailer, and could subsequently make restoration to the Italian. I don't think that the Italian would be able to claim himself under any kind of insurance. If you wanted to ease the matter, you could refund him in the meantime (subject to your funds of course!) and then your friend pay you when the insurance payout comes through. Only a suggestion for what it's worth. Good luck. Anyone know any better - I submit to your knowledge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angels4 Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Sorry to be so cynical, but my first thought was that he came and collected it (he knew where is was being stored) and made off with your friends items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Presumably you have kept all emails etc which will show that this was stored at a place mutually agreed. Surely that will exonerate you from any blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couperwife Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Mark, that was my first thought too cathy x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Did he know where it was being stored? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Posted February 7, 2010 Author Share Posted February 7, 2010 No he didn't know where it was stored,& he would have been collecting it from here ....we were going to pick it up from our friends house yesterday *phew* I do have all the emails,yes *phew,again!* Wantchooks - that is how I thought it would work,but I am not sure that my friends insurance will cover items not owned by him? We are not refunding him until we know that the insurance money is forthcoming - simply can't afford it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Wantchooks - that is how I thought it would work,but I am not sure that my friends insurance will cover items not owned by him? Not saying lie if they ask, but if you don't offer the information, would they know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wantchooks Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Cinnamon- don't forget that the bottom line is that although any insurance payout would probably be on your friend's insurance - you are still involved. You and the Italian entered into a contract- never mind any subsequent storage arrangements - and you have not fulfilled your half of the contract. (Yes I know there were reasons!) Basically he is entitled to his money back, or the trailer, or goods to the value of, and if that is not forthcoming within a reasonable time, then he may decide to take out a civil action against you. He can also file a dispute with ebay, and I have known of cases where Paypal have decided to reclaim the money directly out of the person's bank account. Or worse, he may not believe what has happened, think it is a scam, and report the matter to the police as a fraud. Sorry to be brutal re the above- but it may not be the best thing to just let it be sorted out between your friend and him. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Posted February 8, 2010 Author Share Posted February 8, 2010 He can't file a dispute with paypal as too long has passed since he bought the item. My friend is putting in his claim today,so we should hear pretty soon,I guess. I assume it is reasonable to ask him to wait for is refund until we get the insurance pay out ? We are giving him the crime report number & the insurance details,which I hope are enough to prove that we are not trying it on Sadly he was vistim of an eBay scam a while ago,& told us that he bought the trailer & paid for it so far in advance of the collection he was able to make,as we had such good feedback Of course,had he thought to contact us before he won the item, & ASK if he could pay & have us store it for 3 months,we would have said,no thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wantchooks Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Ah well, it should be ok. I hate ebay - causes so many probs! and usually with buyers from abroad. Still use it though But then, it is a thousand times better than Gumtree..... I would NEVER buy anything off Gumtree, nor would I ever buy anything from anywhere that required sending money by Western Union............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Would your insurance cover it. Our cover includes our property outside the home if it is kept in a safe and secure place (I think). I remember DD clarinet getting broken at school and it would have been covered. Could be wrong but it might be worth a check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Posted February 8, 2010 Author Share Posted February 8, 2010 I will check,but if my friend is claiming anyway,he may as well claim for this too - saves my premium going up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 I see your point of view but has anyone considered that the chap was using the trailer to transport other purchases home and was making a journey based on this? I assume this now scuppers his plans insrance or no insurance so you could be looking at a bigger problem than you have now as he now has no transportation for the goods so presumably has to buy another trailer quickly (so will need his money back quickly) or he needs to rethink his trip and/or his other purchases Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Posted February 8, 2010 Author Share Posted February 8, 2010 Anyhow,we have been storing it for him at a friends house (with his knowledge) & he was due to come over from Italy next week, collect it on Thursday,then use it to pick up various items around the UK to ship back home. As it says in my opening post,that is exactly what he bought it for. It couldn't have happened at a worse time - I have an awful feeling that he has already left or is already here,as he hasn't answered my email yet Naturally we emailed him the very moment we realised that the trailer had been stolen,which was yesterday. It is,unfortunatly,one of those things. we can't refund him yet as we just don't have the cash to hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Gosh what a nightmare I know you said about him using it to collect various bits in your original post I wasnt being difficult its just that the rest of the thread focused on the money side of things I know you dont have the money to refund him but honestly feel this would be the best thing to do as he needs to get those purchases home so will need a trailer, chances are that this will cost him more money to get 'on the hop' than it did on ebay too, could your friend assist since it was on their premises when it was pinched? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Posted February 8, 2010 Author Share Posted February 8, 2010 I know you weren't being difficult I doubt whether my friend could do that - they are already having to fork out for all their work tools to be able to get back to work again (a good couple of thousand) ....it really is a nightmare,isn't it? And as it wasn't his trailer to start with,I would feel uncomfortable asking to be honest. I would actually be quite happy for him to contact the Police,as we have all our bases covered,I have all the emails,& the theft was reported yesterday. At least that way he would know that we are not trying to pull a fast one I am keeping a sharp eye out on eBay & other sites too,as it was a custom made trailer,a complete one off,so should it pop up as a listing,it is very recognisable WHY do people think its OK to steal things? It is a truly horrible thing to do & causes so many problems,as well as the initial ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Oh Sarah what a disaster. Why do these things always happen at the most inconvenient time possible. I really feel for you Is it worth posting to see if anyone has a trailer that they want to get rid of? - Freecylce maybe? I did know someone that wanted to get shot of one but I think that they got rid of it. I can check with them on Tuesday though if it will be of any help and Swindon isn't too far, it wont be fancy and they may not have it anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Golly, what a mess As it's an unusual trailer, I take it that the police are involved and looking out for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Posted February 9, 2010 Author Share Posted February 9, 2010 Oh yes, & lot of the other stuff pinched was unique & unsual too. I had a very brief email from the Italian today,so at least he knows what has happened As he was driving here,he is on his way now though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluekarin Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Oh yes, & lot of the other stuff pinched was unique & unsual too. I had a very brief email from the Italian today,so at least he knows what has happened As he was driving here,he is on his way now though Good luck. Hope he is understanding. I don't know what I'd do in the same situation. Would Citizens advice bureau be able to help? Maybe put you in touch with someone who knows about these things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
