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majorbloodnock

A self-centred society?

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At the weekend, I went out with my children for a morning of exercise. There was something my daughter needed replaced, so once we arrived we quickly popped into the shop there that dealt with those sorts of things (I'm deliberately being vague so as not to vilify any particular group above any others). The shop is small and had a clear notice outside restricting entry to one customer at a time. I went in, did what I had to do and paid. I then turned to leave and, someone else having come in behind me, I politely said, "Excuse me, any chance I can just get past?", to which the reply came, "Well, if you're taking it that seriously, yeah, sure."

Of course I take the Covid-19 situation seriously; people have died. This is not an earth-shattering incident and certainly not newsworthy. What staggered me, though, is just how mundane it was, and what that says about society at the moment. The bloke clearly just didn't want to wait, and so chose to view the sensible precautions as rules for everyone else. We've all seen the news stories of crowded beaches and swarms of people in parks and other beauty spots, and of the selfish panic buying at the beginning of the lockdown. Of course I also realise the media only report what is going to sell - the exceptional stories, if you will. However, wherever I turn I see people pushing the boundaries of the remaining restrictions, so I have no choice but to believe that the majority of people in the UK see it as socially acceptable to take at least small liberties with the rules.

And yet only two days ago there was a nationwide "clap for NHS" supposedly to show respect for the efforts and sacrifices health professionals have gone through to save patients' lives. How can so many people be so shallow and inconsistent as to applaud the NHS whilst paying lip service to, bending or even flouting the well known guidelines put in place to protect both us all and the very health professionals being applauded.

I can only conclude that we have become a hugely insular and self-absorbed society; that the norm is to assume everyone else will play the game so rules don't have to apply to oneself. I'm well aware of the people who have chosen to put themselves out for the help of others - shopping trips for elderly neighbours, for instance - but I'm starting to feel they are noteworthy precisely because they're not the standard. In short, I'm ashamed of what we seem to have become.

Rant over.

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Yes very ashamed of how some of our society is behaving - particularly in shops.   I had a hospital appointment yesterday some way away and took the opportunity to nip into a Marks and Spencers shop = folks all over the place and what was worse a shop assistant obviously shopping for herself or someone else not observing any social distancing rules and coming right behind us and along side us.   What is the point of the marks on the floor if you dont observe it - I had a mask on and so had some but not all customers - its not law till friday this week but may as well start it now.  

The other shameful members of society are the ones who litter - they go out for the day laden with goodies and tins of beer and juice and then have a lovely day and leave all their rubbish behind them where it lies.   To be honest I would not like to see their houses!.  

There are those who are very responsible and yes looking out for others and helping neighbours and I applaud them - they are doing a great job.   What happened to the values our parents and teachers (in the days) taught us - now they dont listen and the teachers cannot chastise them without the parents standing up for their little treasures - rant over too.

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As always, the minority spoiling things for the majority! I felt physically sick when I saw pictures of the huge piles of waste left by visitor to the Lake District...in some cases even tents (they should not have been wild camping anyway). Equally, pictures of demos, raves, crowded beaches etc......with police in the background taking no action. Water cannon???!! I b****y would!

Whilst some people have behaved in thoughtless and irresponsible ways I think that The Govt must take some responsibility for not hammering the point home, hard, from the outset. There was, and still is, lots of waffle about guidelines, advice etc and, for some people this just does not work. There are those who have to be told 'You cannot/will not do this'. Also some really hard hitting pictures of those in Covid wards shown regularly on TV would have helped to hammer home the severity of the situation. It's all been a bit woolly and woolly isn't helpful in a pandemic. 

Whilst much of the blame clearly lies with the so called 'entitled' teens and twenties who are clearly convinced that 'it won't happen to me' (as per pics of beaches, raves etc) I have noticed that some of the older generation can be just as bad with the attitude 'I may not have long left; I'm not going to spend that time shut up at home or not doing what I want to do'. I've heard that on a number of occasions and can kind of get the sentiment BUT clearly no thought given to transmission, others having to nurse them if they do succumb etc.

Social distancing seems to have relaxed now too; on numerous occasions I've had to dodge out of the way of people walking rapidly towards me but blissfully unaware as they have their heads down busy with their 'phones! And, to my shame, I have missed the bit about compulsory masks.....from Friday? Everywhere?

 

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39 minutes ago, Blackrocksrock said:

....a shop assistant obviously shopping for herself or someone else not observing any social distancing rules and coming right behind us and along side us....

Absolutely agree. And this is so mundane and commonplace it's patently obvious that making a point is likely to be taken as overreacting. In other words, these infringements have been accepted as normal.

 

2 minutes ago, soapdragon said:

....As always, the minority spoiling things for the majority! ....

Sadly I no longer have confidence it is a minority. I wish it were, but if that were so, how could the self-justification of infringements work? Surely if it were just a minority, they'd be ostracised by the majority.

 
6 minutes ago, soapdragon said:

....Whilst some people have behaved in thoughtless and irresponsible ways I think that The Govt must take some responsibility for not hammering the point home, hard, from the outset. There was, and still is, lots of waffle about guidelines, advice etc and, for some people this just does not work. There are those who have to be told 'You cannot/will not do this'. Also some really hard hitting pictures of those in Covid wards shown regularly on TV would have helped to hammer home the severity of the situation. It's all been a bit woolly and woolly isn't helpful in a pandemic. 

Whilst much of the blame clearly lies with the so called 'entitled' teens and twenties who are clearly convinced that 'it won't happen to me' (as per pics of beaches, raves etc) I have noticed that some of the older generation can be just as bad with the attitude 'I may not have long left; I'm not going to spend that time shut up at home or not doing what I want to do'. I've heard that on a number of occasions and can kind of get the sentiment BUT clearly no thought given to transmission, others having to nurse them if they do succumb etc.....

 

I have very little time for any of the political parties or even any of the individual MPs therein, so no need to worry that I'll be making some sort of political statement. Nonetheless, I believe one of the things that has gone right both in this country and many others is the readiness to listen to the experts and let them get on with doing their jobs. Where there has been deviation for political agendas, problems have ensued. As a result, I don't necessarily agree with foisting the blame back to the Government. Eventually, in any democracy every member of the society carries a responsibility and I haven't seen too much evidence of that happening outside a few notable exceptions (such as key workers).

And, of course, in criticising I have to also accept that any time I've seen someone taking liberties and let it go, I've been part of the problem myself. That's why I said I was ashamed at what we as a society have become, because I'm inherently a part of that.

 

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2 hours ago, soapdragon said:

And, to my shame, I have missed the bit about compulsory masks.....from Friday? Everywhere?

 

Just in Scotland in shops as far as I'm aware.......

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It certainly seems to have gotten worse since the pandemic, but if the last 4 years have affirmed anything for me it's that there are a lot of self-centred, self-serving people who only care about themselves and have very little regard as to how their actions will affect anyone else. It's depressing really. Watching these near daily videos of grown adults having a full hissy-fit because they have to wear a mask so as to try and save their own lives and others... I'm afraid I've gotten to the point where all I can do is roll my eyes and write them off as not worth bothering with. You can't use facts or science or the truth to argue with them; it's exhausting and they're happy to believe the barefaced lies they get told anyway. Let them! Protect yourself and carry on is all you can really do.

My other half was very flat with someone in the supermarket the other day who kept getting closer and closer and ignoring social distancing in the queue; he turned around and asked her politely to step back, she refused, so he moved to the other end of the trolley and then shoved it back into her which forced her to shuffle back and created a physical barrier between us and her. The bewildered look on her face made me smile as it was the same look the MiL gets when she can't get her own way. Unfortunately she's one of those very entitled people too. It made me and the other shoppers and the guy on the checkouts smile, though.

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I know I'm swimming against the tide here and I've been sceptical about this lockdown from the start. 

I won't go near other people, not because I am remotely worried but because I try to respect the fact that so many people are worried still. 

I don't think people are worse now than before. History shows us that we've always been pretty awful. 

My son had to deal with being spat at by some gross male this morning, now that is bad behaviour in my book, not someone passing too close by. 

 

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It used to be the same with drink driving. The regularly used argument of "I was only a little over the limit" obviously completely missed the point that the legal limit was the MAXIMUM the law felt you had a chance of being safe at, not the starting point after which you began to deteriorate. Nonetheless, it seemed to be very much a socially acceptable game to try to dodge the police.

These days, if you are at a gathering of any sort and, known to have driven, you choose to have a refill you're immediately something of a social pariah. As it should be. Ignoring the rules of the road because they're inconvenient to you risks people's lives. Ignoring the rules of social distancing because they're inconvenient to you risks people's lives. My choice would be to treat both displays of selfishness with equal severity. I'm sure the hospitals could use some extra non-paid help cleaning the bedpans of unfortunate Covid-19 patients; perhaps the courts could supply the labour.

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2 minutes ago, patsylabrador said:

I know I'm swimming against the tide here and I've been sceptical about this lockdown from the start. 

I won't go near other people, not because I am remotely worried but because I try to respect the fact that so many people are worried still. 

I don't think people are worse now than before. History shows us that we've always been pretty awful. 

My son had to deal with being spat at by some gross male this morning, now that is bad behaviour in my book, not someone passing too close by. 

 

I have no problem with differences of opinion, though it's plain yours and mine are not the same. However, your respectful acceptance of those differences speaks volumes.

As for whether or not we were always this self-serving, you may be right. I hope you're wrong and it feels as if the current situation is a deterioration from better times, but that's purely my judgement and I'm just as liable to bias as anyone else. What the answer is, of course, is a completely different issue and one of many reasons why I would never want a political career - I don't have all the answers and I'm not convinced I could do it better.

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Agree totally a lot of people can be rude. Another thought is I have noticed when out walking and shopping, that I have totally forgotten all about Covid and am in a little daydream and notice someone veering out of the way and thinking why are they doing that. 
Also out shopping in supermarket it is very unclear which way to go, there are footprints but people are going up and down and you think what am 8 supposed to do.

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1 hour ago, majorbloodnock said:

It used to be the same with drink driving. The regularly used argument of "I was only a little over the limit" obviously completely missed the point that the legal limit was the MAXIMUM the law felt you had a chance of being safe at, not the starting point after which you began to deteriorate. Nonetheless, it seemed to be very much a socially acceptable game to try to dodge the police.

These days, if you are at a gathering of any sort and, known to have driven, you choose to have a refill you're immediately something of a social pariah. As it should be. Ignoring the rules of the road because they're inconvenient to you risks people's lives. Ignoring the rules of social distancing because they're inconvenient to you risks people's lives. My choice would be to treat both displays of selfishness with equal severity. I'm sure the hospitals could use some extra non-paid help cleaning the bedpans of unfortunate Covid-19 patients; perhaps the courts could supply the labour.

Absolutely!

I was heartened by the (in most part) adherence to the distancing, and mindfulness of others at the start of lockdown. I have 2 dogs, so had to go out to exercise them; I was always very careful to distance from anyone else, to thank anyone who did the same for me, and to make a point of greeting people cheerfully (Dog knows we all needed it) especially the older members of our neighbourhood for whom that may well have been their only contact with another person all day. I said 'in most part' because there were ignorant exceptions where youths would walk straight at me or try to barge past, spitting out insults when I reprimanded them. It makes me feel ashamed to be part of the same society.

I think that this crisis has accentuated people's behaviour/traits/personalities in many cases, not always for the positive. I don't much care for a lot of what I have seen, but conversely, there have also been some lovely caring touches. I am missing the quiet roads and pavements though.

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For myself I’m not really frightened of getting the virus. Not because I think I invincible - I’m statistically low risk but I know that doesn’t really matter and that if your body reacts in an unexpected manner it can kill anyone - just because I seem to be pre-programmed to not worry about things like that. 

However, there are lots of people who are frightened, and anyone who says that’s silly is just completely ignoring the facts of how many people this virus has killed.

For this reason it makes me so angry that so many people just don’t care enough about others to take even the smallest actions to reduce the risk. It really doesn’t take much to follow some simple rules to keep socially distanced. Yes it may make some of your tasks take longer but it’s only a bit of time!! It’s better than being dead!!

In Asda this week I very politely pointed out to a man, when I met him for the third time, that people were supposed to follow the one way arrows. He did turn around but said to me ‘Well nobody else is’ - which wasn’t even true!!! In the whole shop maybe 3 or 4 people weren’t - everybody else was doing as they were asked.

I also can’t understand the people who seem to treat the lockdown and subsequent social distancing guidance etc as if it’s some sort of punishment or the government being mean to them. I hate this Tory government as much as the next centre leftie (!) but I genuinely think that despite lots of mistakes in detail and timing they have generally done the things that they had no choice but to do. How can you think things wouldn’t have been worse without lockdown and social distancing?

When I read the original post in this thread I was going to just ‘like’ as I agreed with every sentiment in the majors post - but I seem to have ended up having a rant myself!

PL - I’m aware you might find this offensive and I am sorry, and I also really respect that you have respected other views even though you don’t share them. But I feel that there are some opinions that should be challenged.

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Cool 😎 recent behaviour in politics have taught me that we all have a right to think what we want and we must speak out for our own views and we should guard that freedom and not get offended if other people don't agree with us. 

It all gets a bit 1984 otherwise. 

It's good to question though isn't it. I'm Tory through and through but I don't totally support everything they have done which is good I think. 

 

 

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I think the freedom to evaluate available evidence and come to one's own conclusions - even when they differ from others' interpretations of the evidence - is priceless. I think the freedom to put forward arguments to express those conclusions and give others the chance to test one's theories is also priceless. However, those freedoms come with a responsibility, and that is to listen and be open to admitting you're wrong; winning in a debate isn't your view prevailing, but the truth becoming clearer to everyone. And that responsibility cannot be discharged unless people do listen. Not hear, but really listen.

Coming back to my original points in the thread, it seems to me too few people are living up to their responsibilities. We can't blame the local council, the borough council, the county council, the government, the establishment, the church, the World Health Organisation, the Chinese, mobile phone companies or even little green men from Mars for any failures in managing the Covid-19 pandemic until we accept that what each of us does individually adds up to a big collective difference.

Political issues and allegiances aside, democracy is based on freedom of debate leading to a consensus of opinion, and action following the path of that consensus. In short, we collectively do what the majority of us feel is right, and we find out what the majority feel by discussing. It's fine to continue challenging that majority view whilst the action is being taken, and if the majority view changes then so does the action. Where it all falls apart, though, is when the minority fail to accept the consensus and follow a different path of action. That's not democracy, that's anarchy. And that's what we see every time someone chooses to ignore social distancing rules "just this once because I'm in a hurry".

The real crunch, though, is that we form a society for some form of collective benefit and protection. If others are choosing not to help with that, there's no give and take for me. At what point do we decide everyone's in it for themselves and that society as we know it has broken down? 'Cos I'm seeing an awful lot of take compared with the admittedly shining examples of give. 

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So true; we are seeing pockets where society, and mankind's natural need to belong to a clan are breaking down. While this will always happen - we are individuals after all and mavericks will always be there and their opinions and beliefs need to be welcomed and listened to. The tough call, or calls, are what right does any of us have to decide which is the best path to take.... is it a moral judgement, sensible one or just taken on an over all view? It is hard not to judge too, when one can see other folks not toeing the line, or acting sensibly and putting others at risk. A prudent person or 'body' will listen at all times, re-evaluate the business plan and re-plot if that is necessary. 

An example: my neighbour is 90 and very frail, his son lives with him and they have carers in several times a day. This son's lady friend has been to-ing and fro-ing from Lincolnshire where she lives,  to north Oxon all through lockdown.... for 'a break and to see my man'. This blatant pig-headedness and 'doesn't apply to me' attitude makes me mad - she is putting this man's life at risk, and all for her own selfish gain. It seems that someone in the street - no, it wasn't me, but we have a tight and helpful community - must have reported her, and I got a certain amount of joy from seeing the police speaking to her.

There's been an element all through this situation of 'how can we get round this and not be detected', and while I laud their inventiveness, there's a reason for these restrictions and they are not on a whim, but to save lives and keep us all safe. We are not being locked down for punishment, but to save our lives, those of others, and to help the NHS to save lives.

Nuff said ;)

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Nice to see someone reported her and the police spoke to her - its only right - maybe some folks in the street have not seen their relatives either for a long long time and also grand children and watching that is like a red rag to a bull.   We have had so much coming and going and I am sure the family up the road who have lads are drug dealing by the running up and down the road to the village and back all the time!

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During the first part of the lockdown it seemed to bring out best in people. But now back to normal. Refused to clap on Sunday, why because I want people to behave not clap and then swan down to beach/pub etc spread their germs and their rubbish. Clap for NHS ( I am NHS) but behave yourselves. When theres a second spike they will be first to moan. 

Phew rant over

Btw a few weeks back I could literally feel the man behind me breathing down my neck. I turned round and snarled behind my mask "2 metres" he moved mighty quick. Guy behind him cracked up laughing. 

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Admit to being frightened of virus. Poss moderate risk category but not enough to be able to work at home. Still work and volunteer just wear ppe

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I took an elderly neighbour into a nearby town (Didcot) to get her hearing aid sorted at Specsavers - it has been malfunctioning since just before lockdown. We both wore masks and she wore gloves as well as she is in the vulnerable category.  I was shocked at the number of people who were blatantly  ignoring very clear markings on the pavement and outside shops in terms of distancing. Having been fairly relaxed about it all that really frightened me; for goodness sake, it's not hard!  In fact it's very easy so why people cannot get their heads around it is a mystery - or is there any will to do so?

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