Poorly chicken

[Nikipins]

My father who is advancing in years fell off a roof yesterday. He's in hospital now waiting for an operation on his broken arm and damaged hand and some further tests on his abdomen. He looks a sight covered in bruises and having had various bits of his head sewn back together. Thankfully I think he will be alright but he's lucky not to have been more seriously hurt. It was the roof at church he fell off, when I asked him what he thought he was doing on the roof at his age he said he was the youngest there and so volunteered! It's not the first time he has had an accident at church helping out with the handyman duties but this is the most serious.

I don't want stop him doing things he wants but he needs to start realising he's not a spring chicken and he shouldn't be climbing up ladders and on roofs, really if the church need things doing they should be getting someone in not relying on the ageing band of regulars none of which are 'young' in body only in mind. Any advice out there for me about parents behaving badly?

[snowberry]

Oh dear! The wardens of the church really should know better than to let him help out like that. I do hope they all learn from this horrible accident that could have ended a lot worse. H&S applies to churches too!

I'm wishing him a smooth & speedy recovery!

 

Did you check to see if any lead was missing from the roof?

[Nikipins]

He's frequently up on this particular bit of roof because the CCTV camera is sighted up there and gets regularly vandalised and he goes up to sort it out. He will now be able to watch himself stepping back off the roof into fresh air and disappearing from sight on the CCTV footage a bit like a cartoon fall, if only he bounced like in the cartoons.

[Grandmashazzie]

Dear dear your poor old dad.The church will need to make sure volunteers are not going up on roof if they are ahem of a certain age.But Iknow how hard it is to balance books,my OH is church treasurer and has had to set up gardening rota etc etc as the funds just aren't there anymore.I think he would draw a line under dangerous activities,too worried about big claim on insurance.

[Willow]

I think you should try and get hold of that CCTV footage to show him.

 

Also go have a word with the church warden and vicar and point out that churches are not exempt from H&S legislation and ask them if they have reported his accident to the H&S executive as they are required to by law!

 

Your dad will no doubt be cross but it is not acceptable for them to put well meaning parishioners at risk like this He is lucky it wasn't worse

[freddie]

I ha dto ban my mum from ladders etc, when she was ... 81.. She wasn't best pleased, but sort of complied... It keeps them young, this Dunkirk spirit thing!!

[Alis girls]

I feel your pain, my fahter thought he would play footie with my son and fell the next time he fell again. When he went in his local shop and told them he was visiting his daughter in London they said they hoped he;d come back unscathed. Then I had to call ambulance as he had a "turn" - seems his blood sugar plummeted - hes not diabetic so didnt see that coming. I dread his visits - hes safer at home. They are a law to themselves. I of course will be an angel in my old age

[counturchickens]

My fil, 88 (!) is always doing things he shouldn't. Eg. 'Came over all funny one day' turned out he had dragged the chest freezer into the garden to defrost it. Fell off a step stool whilst balancing changing a light bulb. Fell whilst running upstairs and got his head stuck in the stair lift, the list goes on

[Alis girls]

And we complain about teenagers - nothing compared to the oldies.

[Nikipins]

I thought I would reserect this thread. My lovely father the subject of the original post has been up the ladder at church again sorting out the CCTV camera once more and you guessed it he fell off. This time I had a call from my mother this morning as he was in transfer to the regional plastic surgery centre. He managed to amputate the little finger on his right hand (ugh!). Father and finger went in the ambulance to Norfolk and Norwich hospital whist they decided whether to re-attach it. In the end they decided it wasn't possible and just tidied up his hand, sutured a cut on his leg and did various x-rays which were all ok.

 

Once I'd got over the shock and worked out that dad was going to be ok and told him off roundly on the phone for being up the ladder again. I'm back to how to deal with the church. I made my displeasure known last time but apart from a few conversations with various church members I didn't take things further. Now I feel more action needs to be taken. I do wonder if my father has the early stages of dementia which may be affecting his judgement but the church management surely have a duty of care to their parishioners and they should protect them from harm. This is now 2 accidents when he has been working at height with no safety precautions, this wouldn't be allowed in a business so shouldn't be allowed in a public building such as a church.

 

Any more advice out there?

[Willow]

How awful.

 

You really should follow-up, contact the Health and Safety Executive, the church council have a legal obligation to report this accident to them but I doubt they have, you can http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/index.htm and look for RIDDOR. Unfortunately the HSE don't have a helpline but I suggest you fill out the form and send it in to them.

 

Have a read of http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2012/rnn-ldn-7612.htm they do have to provide a safe work environment and just because he's a volunteer doesn't mean they don't have to. As an elderly and potentially vulnerable

 

Since they let him go up again after the last accident they will continue to put people at risk until they get fined - sad that is what is is going to take but they had the chance last time and horrible as it sounds his accident could have been worse (and still could be next time if you don't report them and force them to take more care).

 

Edited to add

If your father is in early stages of dementia and it's affecting his judgement what the church is doing is abuse of a vulnerable adult.

 

I'm a church goer, I help out with cleaning & flowers for my local church and I also volunteer practical help at various events at the local CoE church as well so I know how much churches depend on volunteers but this just sounds seriously negligent to me

[Nikipins]

Thanks willow.

I've had a look at the documents and found some advice on health and safety from the ecclesiastical insurance office to churches.

Tomorrow I will contact the parish officer and ask for a copy of the accident report from this and the previous accident, the churches H&S policy and the risk assessment related to working at height maintaining the CCTV camera and see what they come up with.

 

Looking at the HSE website I don't think I can report a concern as I am not the Employer, I might be wrong in this as I skim read the RIDDOR guidance. I will look at this more closely tomorrow.

[Chickendoodle]

I am pretty sure you can report it to the HSE - a friend of mine fell down an unmarked hole in a shop and reported it to the HSE .Within a day the shop had been shut down. Your Dad could certainly report it as the injured party and as his daughter I don't see why you couldn't raise it with them. The worst they can do is ignore it but you will have lost nothing.

 

I would also put your concerns in writing to the Church (maybe with a copy to the Diocese?)

 

Your Dad obviously likes the Church and wants to maintain a good relationship but they have a duty of care towards their volunteers.

 

Just a thought - Is someone asking him to go up a ladder and check on the CCTV or is he just seeing that there is a problem, getting a ladder and doing it without anyone realising?

[Nikipins]

Thanks chickendoodle

I've spoken to my parents today, they were back at the church helping out again (only coffee rota today thank goodness). Yesterday Dad had noticed there was a problem with one of the CCTV cameras and so had decided to go and have a look so no no one asked him yesterday he took it on himself to go up the ladder. He does go on the church roof and up ladders frequently to sort out problems with the CCTV so although he wasn't asked as such yesterday it's a common 'task' as such that he does.

Apparently the church elders have met this morning and are completing forms for the HSE and did report the last accident, but don't think any of the action plans from the last accident have been acted upon. My parents don't want me to contact the parish administrator or make a fuss, which is typical of them and they feel it was all my dad's fault. So I have asked my mum to get the parish administrator to send me the 2 accident reports, HSE reports and risk assessment. Once I've got these I'll see if I think it needs further action. I don't live close to my parents so it all has to be done on the phone, I don't want to spoil their relationship with the church as it is their main social next work but I do want them to be safe.

[kinsk]

But Iknow how hard it is to balance books,

 

I agree but no need to try and drum up a bit of extra business

 

 

Hope your Dad is okay. The church does indeed have a duty of care to anyone on it's property, be it slipping or tripping or falling from it's roof.

 

This is from an employers perspective but a few years ago an employee suffered a serious eye injury because he wasn't wearing safety goggles, he had been warned previously, we had the warnings on file, HSE investigated and cleared us but our insurance company still ended up having to pay out. Last year we had an employee who repeatedly was caught not using appropriate protective equipment and after two warning had to dismiss him as if something had happened it would have been our fault.

 

After two falls, and they sound serious ones, the church has to make sure that your Dad is of no persuasion to ever go up that ladder again. I can understand why your parents don't want you taking it any further as it sounds like the church is a big part of their life. Can your Mum not have a stern talk with him and someone at the church?

[merlina]

May I just be devil's advocate here.....

 

I've experienced similar situations with two elderly gentlemen in recent years - aged late 70s and early 80s. They weren't related to me as such, they 'belonged' to my ex or were the partner of a family member

 

Both experienced injuries falling from ladders (not together!). One was mending the guttering, the other installing a new shed roof.

 

Within months both had more injuries - this time falling from a bicycle and the other falling from a tree (had gone to collect a football kicked up there!).

 

And then there was a third injury for each which was more serious and involved hospital. In both cases, after the third accident, the family insisted no more ladders/bikes/trees/power tools etc.

 

Within months both were dead. One of them I saw fairly regularly and I think I can say he simply lost the will to live. His life was cycling and DIY and when that was gone he sat in a chair and, to put it bluntly, wished for death. i suspect the other gentleman was not dissimilarly affected.

 

I don't want to cause any offence, but I do think we can't be overprotective with parents - in the same way as we can't with children or even our animals.

[soapdragon]

Oh, for goodness sake, if we are not worrying about our children then we are worrying about our parents

 

Do hope that you get it all sorted out; if you feel that your Dad is in the initial stages of dementia could you get him to a GP to confirm this then all are aware? (Although I realise that this could be harder than it sounds if your Dad is a stubborn as mine!!! )

 

Its really hard (and I know that from experience!) to admit that we are not as young and able as we once were but risking life and limb is not really fair on everyone else concerned, esp family! However, your Dad doesn't sound the 'pipe and slippers' sort of chap!

 

Good luck!

[Leeloo]

Ah yes, parents don't always listen to reason! My husband's father thought that he would start building a large house by himself at 57!! We gently tried to discourage him, but no luck! My brother-in-law helped for several years, but finally got fed up and quit! Fortunately, he didn't hurt himself, but due to health problems and a rocky economy, he wasn't able to finish it. He just had to sell it unfinished at a great loss and is very depressed and angry about it.

[Alis girls]

You are not alone believe me - as a Practice Nurse in recent weeks I have had various elderly ladies and gents in with injuries realating to toilet seats dropping on an arm , walking into open ovens (shut it! the door that is) - knocks to shins, falls over cats, dogs and other furry fiends. They come in black and blue - get patched up with various dressings, bandages, a tetanus shot, lotsa TLC and a hug if they want one ( I discourage elderly gents from doing this as affects blood pressure!) and are sent off with a flea in their ear of not to do this again. these are youngsters in their 70's, 80's and 90's As a church goer and volunteer myself I often end up cooking food in the huge oven which is served to the multitudes for various do's - thankfully no ones died yet so am well on the way to being a trouble maker in my wrinkly years .

I hope your dad goes on ok. Not sure which I prefer oldies or teens. I do feel we are a sandwich generation. dont like it one bit but there you go. Good luck whatever you decide to do. Ali x

[sadietoo]

Life is quite dangerous and even if you wrap yourself in cotton wool one day you will die. I know I'd rather go doing what I wanted and being active so sorry but I'm with the oldies on this. I used to work with a guy who used to swim in the sea most days and fell out of a tree aged 80. He lived to a ripe old age of over 90 but lived every day. Few of us can make that claim.....

Ah yes, parents don't always listen to reason! My husband's father thought that he would start building a large house by himself at 57!!

 

Gosh, that ripe old age needing two exclamation marks? !!!

Suddenly feeling very very old indeed !

[Leeloo]

It's not an old age for some things, but it is for building an elaborate two story house on pilings when your only previous construction experience is minor home remodeling projects in younger years. Sorry if it made you feel old, but we are dealing with the fall out from not "helping" more in this project that we felt was ill-advised from the start. Sorry for venting. Guess I should have chosen a different forum.

[Eggasperated]

Ah yes, parents don't always listen to reason! My husband's father thought that he would start building a large house by himself at 57!!

 

Gosh, that ripe old age needing two exclamation marks? !!!

Suddenly feeling very very old indeed !

 

I agree with you Sadietoo, since when has 57 been sooooo old . Sorry Leeloo, I don't agree with your view of what can be done at that age - it depends on the person.

[newcountrygirl]

I am the same age too and although somedays i feel about 90 most of the time I dont feel 57. Since arriving in our 50's we have moved counties and taken on a plot with more land. We are in the process of setting up a certified location for caravans and motor homes and have just received our certificate and will open at the end of March.

[sadietoo]

It's not an old age for some things, but it is for building an elaborate two story house on pilings when your only previous construction experience is minor home remodeling projects in younger years. Sorry if it made you feel old, but we are dealing with the fall out from not "helping" more in this project that we felt was ill-advised from the start. Sorry for venting. Guess I should have chosen a different forum.

 

Surely the point here is not just age, but aptitude and experience.

I would absolutely trust my highly practical 57 year old OH to build us a house, but my friend's husband of a similar age cannot be relied upon to change a lightbulb!

[sadietoo]

I am the same age too and although somedays i feel about 90 most of the time I dont feel 57. Since arriving in our 50's we have moved counties and taken on a plot with more land. We are in the process of setting up a certified location for caravans and motor homes and have just received our certificate and will open at the end of March.

Congratulations! I hope everything goes well for you.