bluekarin Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 My word, what an exciting time it has been for you recently! Congratulations to Annabel on her new bundle of joy. Was it born on the same day as the new prince? If so, surely one of his three names would have to feature Lovely photos too *melts* I would say the breeder hasn't a leg to stand on with regards to the ownerships of the puppy. If they were so concerned they should have made sure she wasn't in pup. I have a sneaky feeling they knew she was and it was only the one, but I hope this isn't the case. It has made me rethink about breeding a litter from my dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkysmum Posted July 26, 2013 Author Share Posted July 26, 2013 Annabel seems to be settling down to being a Mum feed, sleep and occasionally out for a wee or poo, although we have had many poo accidents on the carpet OH is thoroughly enjoying his new Dad role and is devoted to both Annabel and pup Here are a couple of new pics, although as Simon says he keeps missing the best photographable moments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavenders_Blue Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Awwww what a good Mum she is. I guess in terms of house training Annabel, the pup couldn't really have come at a worse time but it's only for a few weeks and she'll soon get the hang of it I'm sure I wonder how many people have had to simultaneously house train an adult dog and her pup?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Lovely It would be worth supplementing mum with some calcium and she is a wee thing and a large single hungry pup will deplete her supplies There is a condition called eclampsia that is a 100% emergency is lactating female dogs, here are the symptoms for you CLICK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkysmum Posted July 26, 2013 Author Share Posted July 26, 2013 Lovely It would be worth supplementing mum with some calcium and she is a wee thing and a large single hungry pup will deplete her supplies There is a condition called eclampsia that is a 100% emergency is lactating female dogs, here are the symptoms for you CLICK Chucky Mama, thanks for this, really valuable advice. Is there anything which is a really good calcium source other than dairy, which we are currently giving her. I know Calcium supplements are available via the vets and would be happy to buy this if it is a good idea. Axx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 I would give her a pet calcium tablets or a supplement high in calcium. Your vet may or may not have something. There is a product call Collo cal D that perfect but it would take you an enternity to get through the smallest bottle which contains 250ml. You could use Zolcal D and any that you don't use could be used as an occasional supplement for your chickens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkysmum Posted July 26, 2013 Author Share Posted July 26, 2013 Hi Chucky Mama and thanks for returning to us on the Calcium issue. I have an almost completely unused bottle of Shell Max which you use at 1ml/5litres.. Should I use this or maybe a yoghurt now and again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 I wouldn't use Shellmax. I would generally suggest a supplement in tablet or liquid form. However some people use cottage cheese It is just a precaution, there is no saying that your dog will have any issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hens@HalfMoonLane Posted August 7, 2013 Share Posted August 7, 2013 What a gorgeous dog and pup, I hope you can keep it, it might be just what mum needs to adjust to being a family dog. About the rescue wanting the pups back, I'm not saying the one who rehomed the lurcher were not doing it to make more from the adoption fees but I'm involved in a rescue near Harrogate and a dog I fostered for a few weeks we found out the pound thought she might have been in pup but didn't tell the rescue. When the rescue found out through the grapevine she might be in pup the rescue had it written into the adoptopn agreement that the pups would be born at the rescue but only so they could be sure that the pups went to good homes and had vaccinations/homechecks before rehoming. Thankfully the little dog wasn't in pup and now has a good home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LolaLayla Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 How are things going with Annabel and puppy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 What lovely pictures and how sweet mum and pup both look!! Like others here, I don't think the breeder would have any right to the pup. If you were not made aware that Annabel could be pregnant, my guess is that the breeder would have a 'responsibility' to take her and/or pup back if you couldn't look after them (I know that's not the case, just theory!), but no 'right' to claim the pup. If they were worried about a stud fee to cover from sale of said pup, they should have done things properly, scanning for puppy, or making it clear to you when giving you Annabel that any pup would be theirs. If they didn't, then they have no claim. Breeders can be funny though. Don't get me wrong, I've met wonderful breeders, but a few I've heard of remain VERY possessive of their sold pups. One family once bought a pup, then their circumstances changed and they moved abroad, I can't remember where, but they did all things properly, arranging for the pup to go with them. After a while things went wrong and they had to be repatriated in a hurry (natural disaster or political upheaval, can't remember which). At the time they left the dog in the care of their vet in that other country, until they could arrange to repatriate her too, once they were safely home. They did that, and the dog moved back in with them, and all is well. The breeder, though, gave them hell for taking 'HER' puppy somewhere and then leaving it there... as if they'd just abandoned it. The family got really bad-mouthed on the forum we're all part of, and obviously got upset, as they had done what was needed and the dog had at no point been neglected. If Charlie or Yeti's breeder had been like that (fortunately they're not), I'd have no problem telling them that, with the amount of money I paid for the dog, the dog is mine, not theirs, and they have no right to it whatsoever. This being said, the amount of money is not the point, whether it's £10, £1000, or passed on for free, once a puppy or dog is passed on to someone else, ownership changes and I would guess the breeder has no more legal right. Of course if it was a case of abuse or neglect, it'd be different. I hope all goes well for you and Annabel and your little pup... they look happy with you... are you planning on keeping pup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkysmum Posted August 9, 2013 Author Share Posted August 9, 2013 The last week has been a really tricky one Annabel has been an amazing Mum and as a consequence her relationship with Daisy has been very difficult. She has been super protective and sadly for Daisy wont tolerate her in the vicinity, to the extent of rushing at her even against closed glass doors. This was so upsetting for everyone that I had to speak to a behaviourist who suggested that it might be in everyones best interest if she and pup returned to the breeders You can imagine how we all felt about that. Hazel and YS were devastated and in the end we couldn't do it. So..... we told the breeder all that had happened and we are now in a position of having to buy pup at only a very slight discount We have seen a slight improvement in the last couple of days and Daisy and Annabel have met in the garden for a few moments without growling and baring teeth. So am a little hopeful that better relations might return to the household. I would love to hear from anyone who might have experience of this In the meantime here are a few more puppy pics You will see that Pup is quite enormous for a yorkie, a testament to Annabel's loving, patient nurturing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ain't Nobody Here Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 I'm so glad Annabel seems to be feeling happier about Daisy, I'm sure that can only improve over time. I can't believe the breeder has made you pay for the pup . All the reasons why they shouldn't have done that have been cited on here by so many of us . Overall, a happy ending though - the pup is gorgeous . Does he have a name yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavenders_Blue Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Oh good Lord I cannot believe the breeder is asking you to pay for the pup! That really is out of order. I presume you will, as a result, be sending her a bill for the extra costs you have incurred raising the pup? (Including your hourly rate, which I imagine would come to around the same amount as the cost of the pup ) I am sure that harmony will return to your household before too long, once pup is grown up and Annabel doesn't feel the need to be so protective. He's a real cutie by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daphne Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) Surely you aren't going to pay for the pup Unless it is written into a formal, legal agreement of course. If necessary, I'd be raising the question of negligence about selling you a "Ooops, word censored!" in pup. Many people would not have been able to cope with that and in any case, the 'goods' were not as described. You hold all the cards, not the breeder. Regarding Annabel and Daisy, are you able to separate them so Annabel doesn't get stressed? I believe it is quite normal for new Mums to be very protective, and this includes from humans as well as other dogs they may have been raised with. Its just instinct and so a question of time until she is able to relax more. Talking to your vet would probably help in a practical way as well as putting your mind at ease. *the automatically censored (I presume) word is the word for a female dog! Just in case you thought I was saying something I shouldn't Edited August 11, 2013 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craftyhunnypie Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Oh my god, that is one irresponsible & greedy breeder. In it all for the money! Shame on you breeder! Annabel & pup are so adorable. I just wish that this breeder could be named & shamed either in a newspaper or on the tv. It's really not on. You should be into breeding for love of animals & that breed, not for the money! Emma.x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Oh good Lord I cannot believe the breeder is asking you to pay for the pup! That really is out of order. I presume you will, as a result, be sending her a bill for the extra costs you have incurred raising the pup? (Including your hourly rate, which I imagine would come to around the same amount as the cost of the pup )I am sure that harmony will return to your household before too long, once pup is grown up and Annabel doesn't feel the need to be so protective. He's a real cutie by the way. Totally agree. Reinforce any positive behaviour quickly and as it happens with lots of praise and high value treats, remove her quickly form any situation where she reacts badly to Daisy.... no telling off or communication, don't even make eye contact and give her time out. I am having to do this with Ruby at the moment as she sticks up for Cyrus after he was jumped on by a loose dog the other day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkysmum Posted August 11, 2013 Author Share Posted August 11, 2013 Thank you again, for all your kind comments. We have had a relatively calm day Annabel and Daisy have met a few times under supervision well away from pup and all has been well. She saves the worst of her growliness when Daisy is on the other side of the half door which separates the family room ( where Annabel and pup are) I will try to "catch her being good " so that I can praise her up more and def give her more treats. I think we've been so anxious we have forgotten to do the treats. Thanks for this, Dogmother . Axx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dogmother Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 No problem, the key is to use very high value treats and not to give too many; homemade liver cake is excellent for this. Bad behaviour should be ignored, or take her away and effect time out such as in her crate or another room where she won't be fussed. Pauline Jackson at this company does excellent distraction training (I have no connection with the company other than thinking they are good!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancing cloud Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Please do not even think of paying the breeder - the cheeky wotsit ! Paying anything more will only encourage their completely irresponsible behaviour towards their animals, that they clearly see as commodities, not pets or even sentient beings. You took Annabel "as seen" and they're very fortunate you are prepared to keep her and pup, rather than return her and demand your money back. Tell them to go forth ... With regard to the behaviour issues, all in favour of what others have said, especially about treats for good behaviour. Annabel's only being a good mum and wants to be a good girl that gets praise and nice treats. She just needs to be reassured that her pup's not threatened in any way. Hang on in there, it will all settle down again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia W Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I completely agree that this irresponsible breeder shouldn't see any of your money. I'd simply ignore her and invite her to take me to the small claims court. She won't want the publicity and I think you'd win anyway. She gave the dog to you and should have least checked that it wasn't in pup by paying for a scan. No responsible breeder would try and breed from an eight year old. Hang on in there and I'm sure they'll all get along well once the pup is older and Anabel feels it needs less protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chucky Mama Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 DO NOT PAY THE BREEDER! - what a shocker, don't even think about it. If they continue to pressure you tell them that you would like them to pay for all additional costs incurred as a result of the unexpected arrival. This would include vets fees, behavioural input, addtional food for the mother, worming for the puppy up to the age of 7-8 weeks (the age that it would have gone to a new home had they kept it), food for the puppy up to 7-8 weeks, bedding (puppy pads etc), any vaccinations up to 7-8 weeks. With a bit of creative accounting I am sure that this will balance beautifully and equal their claim if not exceed it. They didn't know that the dog was pregnant and they sold the dog to you with that in mind. They have zero claim over the puppy. Presumably they would have had to have some knowledge of the dog being mated If so they should have had her scanned to confirm that she was or was not pregnant before letting her go.If they didn't it is their poor judgement that has allowed them to miss out on a puppy. Who knows it's parentage and worth anyway? It might be a mismating with a mutt.DO NOT PAY THE BREEDERS! Re the relationships within the house. I think you will find that they will settle when the puppy gets older and needs less 'protection'. They will also start to interact with your other dog which will help. She is just being a good mum. You can try a Adaptil plug in (or collar) or a Pet Remedy Diffuser which may help provide a less stressful environment. A Pet Remedy has the advantage of keeping all of the house's mammals stress free and not just the dogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egluntyne Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Ditto to all of the advice about not paying the breeder. Let her take you to the small claims court - if she dares, then you can counterclaim for all your expenses. She can't be up to much if she wasn't aware that Annabel was pregnant, and her supervision of her dogs has to be called into question if they were mating willy nilly. If you'll pardon the expression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LolaLayla Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 How are they all doing now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WitchHazel Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 It seems crazy that the breeder wants to charge you for the puppy! If you do decide to pay the breeder, it would surely be acceptable to first deduct the cost of all the vets bills (incl petrol), food, vaccinations etc etc. Or come to an agreement where you pay her if you sell the pup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
